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With the Black Boxes out, I think it's time to start discussing Grey Knights Tactica.

How are the units?

How are the special characters?

How are the rules?

What potential builds do you see?


There are tons of options in the codex, but one of the more interesting things I see is a Paladin army. Two wound Terminators for the win?

Amaya wrote:With the Black Boxes out, I think it's time to start discussing Grey Knights Tactica.

How are the units?

How are the special characters?

How are the rules?

What potential builds do you see?


There are tons of options in the codex, but one of the more interesting things I see is a Paladin army. Two wound Terminators for the win?

..... everywhere

Give how expensive everything is, I really don't see the codex as being that cheesy.

Amaya wrote:Give how expensive everything is, I really don't see the codex as being that cheesy.

There is not a direct correlation between high point cost and lack of cheese.

Sure it will have low model counts.. but it has more than enough gimmicks to mitigate that.

yearzero wrote:

Amaya wrote:Give how expensive everything is, I really don't see the codex as being that cheesy.

There is not a direct correlation between high point cost and lack of cheese.

2000 points = Lord Draigo, 15 Paladins (inc 3 apocatheries), 3 Land Raider Crusaders. Not a lot of punch.

Edit: Unless each individual Paladin can cost Holocaust. That would be insane.

Amaya wrote:

yearzero wrote:

Amaya wrote:Give how expensive everything is, I really don't see the codex as being that cheesy.

There is not a direct correlation between high point cost and lack of cheese.

2000 points = Lord Draigo, 15 Paladins (inc 3 apocatheries), 3 Land Raider Crusaders. Not a lot of punch.

Edit: Unless each individual Paladin can cost Holocaust. That would be insane.

In a 2000 pt army, taking 3 LR is ridiculous. Secondly, trying to kill those 15 Paladins while surviving the Lord and LR's will be quite the task. I remember the old GKs and they were difficult enough

Not against IG. The strength of that army would be its potential ability to have the Scouts special rule.

Edit: I don't see much point to Stormravens in the GK army. You can't put Terminators in it and PAGK aren't CC beasts anymore. Oh, and it doesn't even have the Scout rule FFS.

Note that each paladin is effecitvely 2 Terminators in one. That would be the equivallent of taking 30 Deathwing in terms of survivability. I havent seen their full stats, so I dont know about combat effectiveness, but it's pretty brickshitting already, given that I only had 15 Deathwing in 1500 points (and only one Land raider).

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Note that each paladin is effecitvely 2 Terminators in one.

That's absurd. They don't get twice as many shots or attacks. They can still be instant killed by an S8 attack.

They're pretty damn far from 2 Terminators.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Note that each paladin is effecitvely 2 Terminators in one. That would be the equivallent of taking 30 Deathwing in terms of survivability. I havent seen their full stats, so I dont know about combat effectiveness, but it's pretty brickshitting already, given that I only had 15 Deathwing in 1500 points (and only one Land raider).

If the leaked codex is anything to go by, a full unit of paladins will be 550 points before any upgrades. Throw the apothecary and mixed gear in for wound allocation, and 10 paladins could easily run you 700-900 points, more if you split them into smaller units. Are they scary? Yes, but they damn well better be for close to 1000 points.

My point in all of this is that I do not believe GK terminators are worth twice their number in regular terminators. And a deathwing army will outnumber a paladin GK army. I don't care how powerful the individual models are. You can't compete in 5th edition on under 11 infantry models and a tank at 1500.

yearzero wrote:

Amaya wrote:With the Black Boxes out, I think it's time to start discussing Grey Knights Tactica.

How are the units?

How are the special characters?

How are the rules?

What potential builds do you see?


There are tons of options in the codex, but one of the more interesting things I see is a Paladin army. Two wound Terminators for the win?

..... everywhere

Do you call things cheesy because you always lose? Or is there some other reason?

Pretty sure there are more units in the book than just Paladins. If the leaked book is any indicator, they have plenty of much more disgusting tricks up their sleeves.

20+ units all in RESERVE tell the CODEX is in my hand ready to read and figure out if it truly IS CHEESY. tell then no just no >.<

Amaya wrote:

yearzero wrote:

Amaya wrote:Give how expensive everything is, I really don't see the codex as being that cheesy.

There is not a direct correlation between high point cost and lack of cheese.

2000 points = Lord Draigo, 15 Paladins (inc 3 apocatheries), 3 Land Raider Crusaders. Not a lot of punch.

Edit: Unless each individual Paladin can cost Holocaust. That would be insane.

How many wounds do those Paladins have?
If just one, it would be rediculous - outnumbered by DW, never thought that this will happen.

They have 2 Wounds each

wuestenfux wrote:

Amaya wrote:

yearzero wrote:

Amaya wrote:Give how expensive everything is, I really don't see the codex as being that cheesy.

There is not a direct correlation between high point cost and lack of cheese.

2000 points = Lord Draigo, 15 Paladins (inc 3 apocatheries), 3 Land Raider Crusaders. Not a lot of punch.

Edit: Unless each individual Paladin can cost Holocaust. That would be insane.

How many wounds do those Paladins have?
If just one, it would be rediculous - outnumbered by DW, never thought that this will happen.

How are they really outnumbered by DW? My 2000 point DW list I run with 3 Landraiders is only 5 models more than what he posted(Dread, 3 RW Bikers, and a RW Attack Bike), and my Terminators are 2w a piece with Apothecaries in potentially every squad.

rodgers37 wrote:

yearzero wrote:

Amaya wrote:With the Black Boxes out, I think it's time to start discussing Grey Knights Tactica.

How are the units?

How are the special characters?

How are the rules?

What potential builds do you see?


There are tons of options in the codex, but one of the more interesting things I see is a Paladin army. Two wound Terminators for the win?

..... everywhere

Do you call things cheesy because you always lose? Or is there some other reason?

Before this turns into a giant dick slapping contest, all I will say is GK are historically cheesy. I did in fact use to always lose to them, but that's because during that edition of the rules (3rd?) I played only with Tau and GKs could DS into combat, Tau were difficult to play (their first codex), and every Imperial army used them as allies. The rulebook at the time gave the GKs a lot of advantages that were imbalanced, but now they're not as much of an issue. I'll recall my previous remark of , but I have no doubt that they will be one of the more difficult armies to destroy

Does anyone think a full Paladin army might be viable?

Kaldor Draigo - XXX

6 Paladins - 385
Falchions
Daemonhammer
Pyscannon
Psilencer
Apocathery

6 Paladins - 385
Falchions
Daemonhammer
Pyscannon
Psilencer
Apocathery

6 Paladins - 385
Falchions
Daemonhammer
Pyscannon
Psilencer
Apocathery

Land Raider (Probably Crusader) - XXX
Land Raider (Probably Crusader) - XXX
Land Raider (Probably Crusader) - XXX

Comes in at 2195.

I tried the 1500 point version of it before the official codex release and it seemed to work decently despite it having some fairly obvious weaknesses. Which were objectives (due to amount of units, they were able to capture and hold decently), mobility and their extremely low numbers.

So much so all my friends have forbidden me from actually getting the army built up.

At that point, you might as well consolidate two of those paladin squads into one 10 man squad with a chapter banner.

Wait... nevermind... landraiders can only hold 8 terminators max.

...me and my hate for vehicles...

At least I know there'll be at least one player out there running a rediculous Paladin deathstar.

Did you use Apocatheries and use unique models? Did having two wounds make a big difference with survivability?

Only went with the Apocatheries and Halberds on them. Didn't really bother looking at some of the other options as it is fairly restricted at 1500 points.

The two wounds with FNP seems to work rather nicely, but they'd still probably die only slightly slower than regular terminators if their armour save is ignored. They'd probably be a little more comfortable at higher points, but then the opponent could probably take a decent amount of stuff to counter them so it would need a bit of testing before saying for certain. It's also very likely there are changes to them in between the leak and official release so that will come into play as well.

I can see them working like Nobs though.

Really, Apothecaries could go one of two ways with Paladins. One one hand, they make the squad essentially 4* more durable than normal terminators against small arms fire. However, when you consider the kind of weaponry that your opponent is likely to use against your Paladins anyway, those 75 points might end up just being wasted in the face of massed melta/plasma/lascannons/missiles/etc.

Of course, if you're running an all Paladin army, then you'll be taking small arms and heavy weaponry anyway, so the Apothecary might be worth it, but if you're having a more balanced army with PAGK and the like, you'll probably be better off without the Apothecary, since your mooks are more likely to eat the small arms fire anyway.

I wonder how DSing small squads 4-5 of Paladins would work.

Welcome to the world of "Uber Killy" Units that cost 100pts a model and can curb-stomp anything.

Combine this to the usual "GW" Band Wagoning and we will see hundreds of 20 model armies that cause mass carnage and derision because they can kill everything *REPEAT* everything.

Where is the skill, where is the tactics, where is the Wargaming? Its just roll your LR into the Enemy, Assault out of it, Cane everything insight, roll up a cigarette, smoke it, get in the LR, Move to next unit. BORING, DULL and above all lacking any elan or skill.

mwnciboo wrote:Welcome to the world of "Uber Killy" Units that cost 100pts a model and can curb-stomp anything.

Combine this to the usual "GW" Band Wagoning and we will see hundreds of 20 model armies that cause mass carnage and derision because they can kill everything *REPEAT* everything.

Where is the skill, where is the tactics, where is the Wargaming? Its just roll your LR into the Enemy, Assault out of it, Cane everything insight, roll up a cigarette, smoke it, get in the LR, Move to next unit. BORING, DULL and above all lacking any elan or skill.

Only problem with that strategy is that it takes one pissed off vindicator to neuter the entire army. Paladins will be cool, but I doubt they'll be the competetive standard for the GK dex.

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with Daemonblade + 6-7 horribly underpriced Death Cult Assassins = win?

And it looks like other Assassins can join units...

Xenos Inqusitor is prolly better since he can take rad grenades. Also I think you want to include some crusaders to soak up damage and at least one banisher so you don't get stuck in combat with a stupid Sentinel or Warwalker. With rad grenades and hammerhand the deathcult assassins are hitting your average space marine on 3s with 3-4 attacks and wounding on 2+ with power weapons. Inquisitor retinues are pretty ridiculous and getting totally overlooked.

I think a couple Inquisitors with Retinues, PAGK troops, and then some anti-tank would make a decent army.