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Hey guys
So, do space wolves have any weaknesses? i mean, split fire long fangs, counter charge, jotww ect. They just seem to have all bases covered. I will be playing space wolves alot, so any help would be appreciated

They're a great all round army. It's depends on the list, because space wolf list can vary greatly in their respective strengths and weaknesses.

They are by and large fairly short ranged. The magic range for them is 24".

purplefood wrote:They are by and large fairly short ranged. The magic range for them is 24".

This is no longer even slightly true. It took me a while to get past this, since it was a sacred truth from previous incarnations, but the mix of Razorspam, Typhoons, and Long Fangs makes it very easy for the army to prosecute targets anywhere on the board. Having made some adjustments, I have no problem reaching out and touching other armies. It doesn't rival a good mechguard list's ability to project force, but my tanks also aren't full of normal humans waiting to be removed from the board by the handful when someone points a flamer at them.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

purplefood wrote:They are by and large fairly short ranged. The magic range for them is 24".

This is no longer even slightly true. It took me a while to get past this, since it was a sacred truth from previous incarnations, but the mix of Razorspam, Typhoons, and Long Fangs makes it very easy for the army to prosecute targets anywhere on the board. Having made some adjustments, I have no problem reaching out and touching other armies. It doesn't rival a good mechguard list's ability to project force, but my tanks also aren't full of normal humans waiting to be removed from the board by the handful when someone points a flamer at them.

If you're facing a competetive list yeah.
I assumed he would be facing more all-rounder lists which don't just spam the internet lists.

They are quite good.

They should have short range, but long fangs, dreadnoughts and razorbacks can help in that department. It really depends on the list and not the codex.

Another huge weakness they have is their low model count with just ok leadership. Yes longfangs are amazing, but you are really going feel each model you have to take off of the table with them. Thunderwolves are amazing, but same thing, you lose one and you just severely damaged your 'oomph'

Don't get me wrong, they're an amazing army (I actually recently threw mine on the shelf because they were too easy to win with) but they do have shortcomings that good players will be able to take advantage of.

Enjoy the army!

Very true that it depends on list- the codex is very flexible and can range from very shooty (razorbacks, Longfangs, typhoons) to very fighty (TWC, WG, etc.) and everything in between.

However, there are some general guidelines:
Shooty lists tend to rely on AV 11 and infantry. Volume high str shots helps here.
Most of the army relies on a 3+ save- denying that is very destructive to the force. While cover is common, there are certainly ways around it. For example, outflanking flamestorm baals can wipe a LF unit off the table. A drive up mech vet plasma rapid fire can remove a 5 man GH squad. Plasma cannons aren't as useful as you might think, though, due to spacing and cover. Massed shots from a LR version, though, can make up for it.
GHs with a banner and Mark of the Wulfen are beastly in CC- Countercharge means they will probably shoot at you and still be just as deadly if you charge. Without them, they are like CSM on the charge.
LD can be an issue- TWC without a character and GH squads without a WG are LD 8. Things like Psyker battle squads can really wreak havoc with that.
Runepriests are ICs and can be singled out in CC. They also have T4 and 3+ save unless they upgrade to runic armor. Remember that if you can hurl a PFist or similar at them.
Longfangs are pretty poor in CC- if assaulted and Countercharge goes off they get 2 A each and one more for the leader. A 6 man squad is about like charging a 10 mantac squad, then. Not too bad for good CC units. And they can't shoot while in CC.
Like any marines, escort fleeing units off the table to circumvent ATSKNF.
Unless they are razorspamming, most SW lists don't pack alot of AP2, so have to use volume of fire against things like massed termies. A deathwing list with cyclones would be tough to deal with as the cyclones can quickly chew through AV 11 and the 2+ against almost every other attack.

Silver bullets.

I think a lot of their power or why people accuse them of being broken is really only applicable to other marine lists. Over other (more expensive marines) they have:
BP&CCW – Normal marines are enough to wipe out my guard in CC, the BP CCW is over kill
Counter Attack – I am NEVER going to charge them anyway
Long Fangs – They do nasty things to all armies, but I think the big beef is they do them cheaper and better than other marines. I think if you take other marines books out of the discussion that aren’t AS powerful.

They still all die just as easily as normal marines. Their vehicles are still all as lightly armored as normal marines. They are just as slow as normal marines (except TWC). Most anything you would do against normal marines is a fairly decent option. The difficult part is they are noticeably better in CC than marines and the long fangs make for a very good (and cheap) fire base.

It depends on what army you are playing, but if you can figure out how you are going to neutralize long fangs and then basically kill T4 3+ models outside of CC you’ll do as well as anybody.

With the notable exception of the mass razorspam lists (which IMO are still done better by BA), the big weakness of SW is mass 2+ armor saves.

SW lists can chop through hordes, T4 FNP, MEQ, and vehicle heavy lists like no other by dint of somewhere between 15 and 30 missile launchers.

Throw Termis on the table en masse, however, and they start running out of gas. SW do not generally run with plasma as their special weapon slots tend to be dedicated to melta toters for dealing with the occasional AV13-14 that mass missiles have trouble with.

In that vein, 30 GK Terminators are going to give them some trouble.

I agree that Longfangs are really really good, no one can dispute that, but they have a huge glaring weakness that most people overlook.

Yes, you get a ton of HW compared to SM, yes you get split fire for free. But every wound you take either takes an expensive HW off of the table or takes away your ability to splitfire. On top of all of that, they are only ever going to be 6 man squads.

Leave them alone and they will ruin your day, yes. But I would assume that most players, when they see the longfangs thrown on the table make the mental note that they are priority 1, and the fangs just can't take punishment in any form without feeling it.

osumicrobio wrote:Yes, you get a ton of HW compared to SM, yes you get split fire for free. But every wound you take either takes an expensive HW off of the table or takes away your ability to splitfire. On top of all of that, they are only ever going to be 6 man squads.

So what? Every 5/6 unsaved wounds results in the loss of a 25 pt model. And the 6 man squad results in a firebase superior to some armies' entire shooting phase condensed into 21% of the total army list. The 6 man squad is not much of a liability. You tend to see minimal Devastators or Devastators +1-2 bodies taken when they are taken. The simple fact that you have to pay points for the additional bullet stoppers means that sinking another 80 points into a squad does not necessarily mean that the ability to do so is an asset.

Fangs hyave 5 weapons and can split fire and are very good.

Is it worth taking a twin linked lascannon razorback with them to add a bit of a shield and divert shots away from the fangs themselves, also I'd be ok with them getting shot at so long as it means my wolf guard aren't getting shot at

Like I said, they're good, but the 0 ablative wounds definitely catches up with them very fast. They're not as broken as people make them out to be.

I would almost always go with lasplas Maxwell.

osumicrobio wrote:Like I said, they're good, but the 0 ablative wounds definitely catches up with them very fast. They're not as broken as people make them out to be.

Who said broken? Long Fangs and BA Devs are the template for what MEQ heavy weapon teams should look like. Vanilla SM Devs are simply horrible, and that's why the new generation looks so much better in relation.

But "0 ablative wounds catching up with them fast" is a bit of a misnomer. They're 18 MEQs, typically deployed in some form of cover. It's difficult to shoot them to death quickly with anything. When you add in the additional 79% of the army list that you have to deal with, it's very tough to ensure that 0 LFs remain at the end of a game.

OP:

Do you play Orks?

Guessing by your title. If you do, a couple of deffkoptas go a long way towards ensuring Long fangs are tied up and not shooting at you. =D

hey Dash

yea i play Orks, deffkoptas have been very successful so far i usually take Snikrot too. I like disrupting things

osumicrobio wrote:I agree that Longfangs are really really good, no one can dispute that, but they have a huge glaring weakness that most people overlook.

Yes, you get a ton of HW compared to SM, yes you get split fire for free. But every wound you take either takes an expensive HW off of the table or takes away your ability to splitfire. On top of all of that, they are only ever going to be 6 man squads.

Leave them alone and they will ruin your day, yes. But I would assume that most players, when they see the longfangs thrown on the table make the mental note that they are priority 1, and the fangs just can't take punishment in any form without feeling it.

+1

I have found this to be true as well. With even a minimal amount of harassing fire, if you get a wound or two through, you have significantly reduced that units shooting capabilities. Granted LF's are dirt cheap, and if I played pups I'd field 2-3 squads with ML's every game. But take away split firing and you somewhat neuter (pun intended) their effectiveness.

I haven't see it yet, but I would think running a stripped down wolfguard with them might greatly enhance their utility. Granted, the pup player is having to sink more points into them, but they are gaining slightly more survivability, as well as a potentially better cc threat if they are assaulted. But then again, they are so cheap, it may not be worth it...

purplefood wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

purplefood wrote:They are by and large fairly short ranged. The magic range for them is 24".

This is no longer even slightly true. It took me a while to get past this, since it was a sacred truth from previous incarnations, but the mix of Razorspam, Typhoons, and Long Fangs makes it very easy for the army to prosecute targets anywhere on the board. Having made some adjustments, I have no problem reaching out and touching other armies. It doesn't rival a good mechguard list's ability to project force, but my tanks also aren't full of normal humans waiting to be removed from the board by the handful when someone points a flamer at them.

If you're facing a competetive list yeah.
I assumed he would be facing more all-rounder lists which don't just spam the internet lists.

Purplefood, I could hug you right now. You seem to be thinking along the same lines as me and avoiding the min/max nature many others advocate.

As Purplefood said, Space Wolves can do CC and they can do ranged, however both formats absolutely REQUIRE certain units: TWC or Long Fangs and Razorbacks. Space Wolf lists that don't 'spam' certain units operate best at <24" IMHO.

----

OP: Space Wolves are by and large an army with seemingly few flaws, and that sucks. Particularly from an Ork perspective considering IMHO the best way to defeat SW is to keep them on the back foot. That may sound obvious enough, but if you let the SW player dictate the game then you are done for. Armies with high mobility and ranged firepower can do well against the Space Wolves as they can neutralise them then relocate out of the way for example. Orks don't exactly excel at alpha-strike or hitting and running, so you may be in a bit of a problem here...

I'm no Ork player, but I'll suggest what I can, although if you post your list and the SW players typical compostion (eg. Razorbacks/ Thunder Wolves/ Rhinos etc.)...

I second what Dash said (and he'll know what he's on about), Deff Coptas should work wonders at tying up the Space Wolves, as would Snikrot. I also suspect Storm Boys (despite typically being sub-par) could work well to tie up the Space Wolves. IMHO, if you were to tie up the bulk of the Space Wolf force with some suicide units then the majority of your army (eg. Battle Wagons protected by KFF) should be able to arrive comparitively unmolested, where even the Space Wolves should be unable to stand up to Nobz, Burnas and Deffrolla's.
Also, Space Wolves typically have few back-field threats, so unless he fields Scouts, Lootas may also be a good option.

Good Luck!

Play Grey Knights.

appreciate all the input guys

Dave, here is the list im using at the moment..

8 lootas - 120
8 lootas - 120
kopta with buzzsaw and rokkits - 70
kopta with buzzsaw and rokkits - 70
kopta with buzzsaw and rokkits - 70
20 boyz (sluggas) with nob (PK eavy armour and bosspole) - 165
20 boyz (sluggas) with nob (PK eavy armour and bosspole) - 165
20 boyz (sluggas) with nob (PK eavy armour and bosspole) - 165
7 kommandos, 2 burnas - 100
Snikrot - 85
warboss with PK, combi skorcha, attack squig, cybork body, bosspole and eavy armour - 125
killa kan, skorcha, armour plates and grots - 55
killa kan, skorcha, armour plates and grots - 55
killa kan, skorcha, armour plates and grots - 55
big mek with KFF - 85

1505 pts

The Space Wolf player i play usually goes with 3 long fang units, a whirlwind, a bunch of razorbacks and 3 or 4 units in rhinos. Im not sure what the units are im afraid, he hates blood claws so im guessing its grey hunters.

Just so you know, if he is fielding 3 long fang units and a whirlwind he has 4 heavy slots filled!

Your list looks like it should do well against him though, the sheer volume of shots those lootas can put out is daunting. Snikrot will just add insult to injury when you can pop out behind his safe zone to go after the fangs. Other than that it is just taking apart low AV vehicles and murdering the scoring units inside!

superskrull wrote:Hey guys
So, do space wolves have any weaknesses? I will be playing space wolves alot, so any help would be appreciated

I have found that a rare T-Bone and some ale goes a long way toward distracting them..... maybe add some good spiced rub to the T-Bone and they won't bother you anymore!!

No but seriously, I'm not an Ork player, but your list looks like something I would not like to see across the board from me as DE, as it would take a while to cut through it and you have enough that can hurt my Raiders and Ravagers that I would be pressed somewhat for Target Priority.

You should do fine against them, especially if you can grab two of the long fangs in one assault with Snikrot. I know that my local Ork player loves his Lootas and he runs a good amount of Koptas and they are definitely a pain in the butt sometimes!!

osumicrobio wrote:Just so you know, if he is fielding 3 long fang units and a whirlwind he has 4 heavy slots filled!

Oops, sometimes we play 3000pts with me teaming up with 1500pt necrons, and that whirlwind is always in the back of my mind

I like the whole 'theres only 5 long fangs' thing, i overlooked that. Lootas could do well, hopefully he will fail his leadership and run off the board

Also, i will have to try singling out the rune priest if i can, not looking forward to jotww

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:I think a lot of their power or why people accuse them of being broken is really only applicable to other marine lists.... They still all die just as easily as normal marines. Their vehicles are still all as lightly armored as normal marines. They are just as slow as normal marines (except TWC). Most anything you would do against normal marines is a fairly decent option. The difficult part is they are noticeably better in CC than marines and the long fangs make for a very good (and cheap) fire base.

I agree...

The funny thing about Space Wolf 'Weaknesses' is that their weakness is just going to make them the same as a normal Space Marine.

I love fielding my space wolves, Grey Hunters are the best troop choice in the game and the codex is full of loads of diversity and plenty of tricks you can pull out of your sleeve. But at the end of the day, they're just astartes. They're expensive, they don't get to deepstrike (apart from bloodclaws super overpriced jumppacks) they have less space in their transports than normal marines and they still die when you shoot at them.

Your Orks should be able to chew them up if you get a good deployment. What Wolf lists do you normally encounter???