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Hello Dakka!

This came up in Ailaros' tactic-and-luck thread over at Tactics...

Codex Orks wrote on the Shokk Attack Gun for double sixes:
Any model hit by the gun this turn is removed from play, Vehicles take an automatic penetrating hit.

What do you read from this? It seems to be supposed to say that vehicles are not removed from play and just suffer an autopen. But...all models are removed from play. And vehicles are models, or not? This seems like one of the classic amibguous writings from GW, but I was hoping Dakka could discuss which interpretation might be more valid.

I've always played it as vehicles autopen, actual non vehicle models RFP.

the wording is very clear

General rule, specific rule...

And that's where I have to disagree. When they talk about "any model" and then don't use wording like "with the exception of" afterwards when they are trying to give an exception, it gets muddy.

I completely agree that it seems RAI, vehicles should live and only take one penetrating hit. But since this is YMDC and RAW-land...I think it is not that clear from a lawyer's perspective.

Correct RAW the vehicle takes an auto pen hit then is removed from the table.

Playing it that way though is completely against the spirit of the rule as this is one of those rules that the intention is brutally clear. A TO with half a logical brain won't side with that ruling.

I guess then we agree on the RAW/RAI discrepancy. The intent is definitely clear.

It's a bit of a shame, though - it might have given the unreliable, shunned SAG some competitiveness.

It's not the gun that makes it uncompetitive, because the AP is fantastic. It's the fact that instead you could be taking the KFF that is 300% better.

I'll have to test a dual-Mek list with KFF and SAG one time. I agree that the KFF is generally more useful.

The purpose of having vehicls take an automatic Pen is so in the case of it being a transpot, one has a chane to save/disembark the guys one otherwise wouldn't have.

ChrisCP wrote:The purpose of having vehicls take an automatic Pen is so in the case of it being a transpot, one has a chane to save/disembark the guys one otherwise wouldn't have.

Very much so this. I don't even play Orks but would definitely say that the vehicle goes, the pen is to see if transports and the like affect their passengers and to see if they explode, potentially doing even more harm >

Or as some would have you believe on here making the vehicle (which is in the middle of the wormhole) explode, and then having the contents standing where it was in a crater, still in the wormhole that made the landraider explode (as it's all simultaneous) and be totally unaffected...

I'm quite firmly of the opinion that it's an oversight, and the 'removed' affect is supposed to apply to non-vehicle models, with vehicles just taking a Pen instead.

Given how the rule is actually written, though, I'd be happy to play it either way until GW get around to saying one way or the other.

'I'm quite firmly of the opinion that it's an oversight, and the 'removed' affect is supposed to apply to non-vehicle models, with vehicles just taking a Pen instead.'

I'm with you on this one, if you remember the flaming YMDC post a while back, regardless of the RAW arguments to the contrary (as it can be argued both ways ) . Almost every Ork player i asked on Waaagh goes by this route.

The alternative just pushes my suspension of disbelief too far, even for this system

Ok lets say it is to affect the passengers.

If the vehicle is wrecked or exploded to they get out and the vehicle is removed?

And if any other result the passengers are removed with the vehicle?