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So this has bothered me for a while.

"...Lukas was once famous for sharing a doen beds in a single night. But since his elevation..."

So it is my general understanding that people have to very young to be able to accept the different organs and treatments to become marines. I am sure I have read that they must be prepubesent, or at the most very early in their puberty.

The question is, how on earth was Lukas able to bed women before puberty? Is the spacewolf system different enough so that it can work on much older applicants? Or did the bedding happen after he was a marine, even though I thought marines were unable to do such things.

Try to keep it a bit clean, I know it is a topic that can wander off a bit.

I don't think you have to be very young.

In the Space Wolf novels, Ragnar was in his late teens when he was taken. Right after getting laid, too.

Yeah that's something that bugged me, I was under the impression that Marines couldn't boink but it sounds to me like he did that as a Marine. Or maybe I just misread the fluff.

Hell, he is not called "the trickster" for nothing.

Cause Fenrisians are born as men straight from the womb.

In all seriousness, there seems to be alot of contradictions regarding the 'stage' at which an aspirant can take on the geneseed of the chapter and its accompanying organs.

Some follow this pre-pubescence thing to the letter, others seem like the aspirants are still full grown (yet still young) men. I mean, in the case of Space Wolves, most Fenrisians taken away by the Wolf Priests are atleast old enough to wage war amongst their native tribes. I think in this case, since drinking from the Cup of the Wulfen is such an integral part of whether or not a man can become a Space Wolf means that it has a higher age tolerance for a marine aspirant.

That's just my two teef on it.

I guess he was already able to have normal sexual relationships with fenrisian women when he was drafted in the chapter.

I was thinking that the wolves could recruit older people than the other chapters, they don't seem to have much respect for the old codex.

Trickstick wrote:So this has bothered me for a while.

"...Lukas was once famous for sharing a dozen beds in a single night. But since his elevation..."

You mind me askin where you got that quote?

WARORK93 wrote:

Trickstick wrote:So this has bothered me for a while.

"...Lukas was once famous for sharing a dozen beds in a single night. But since his elevation..."

You mind me askin where you got that quote?

The SW codex.
On Fenris you are considered a man after a certain age (I guessed about 14 but it could go up to 17 or higher)
He could have had sex and been recruited a few months later or something.
As someone mentioned before, Ragnar gets taken right after getting laid.

Blood Angels applicants have to be old enough to participate in combat trials and DoW II mentions an Arbitrator becoming a Space Marine; considering this, I would assume that each Chapter has its own preferences.

Space wolves don't seem to need the Pre-pubescent youths that other legions require for marine conversion.

Arjac Rockfist was a giant blacksmith.

Njal Storm-caller Had a Long forked beard as a tribesman.

Canis was old and large enough to drag the Recruit Jorek(Who was a "Great Warlord" prior to being chosen by the Wolf priests); that is something few pre-pubescent boys could do.

Also Space wolves don't seem to need nearly as much time for the organs to implant/grow

Owain wrote:Blood Angels applicants have to be old enough to participate in combat trials and DoW II mentions an Arbitrator becoming a Space Marine; considering this, I would assume that each Chapter has its own preferences.

This is the most likely explanation. Outside of contradictory fluff of recruitment in the same chapter, any differences between chapters would just come from that chapters culture and preferences.

Probably makes sense to take older recruits anyway - they're not going through puberty. Having a body going through that hormonal stage is bad enough without stuffing it full of extra organs and the like.

-Loki- wrote:Probably makes sense to take older recruits anyway - they're not going through puberty. Having a body going through that hormonal stage is bad enough without stuffing it full of extra organs and the like.

^ this, I'd imagine that would be even worse for the confusing times of a teenager.

^It's like some sort of genetically enhanced space-puberty. Also, off-topic, best sig ever.

the general age of selection ranges from 12 to 16.

while it would be unusual for a 12 year old to be developed enough to have, functional, sex, it isn't impossable. 12 is about the lower limit for males.

a hostile planet like Fenris would certaintly favor early development.




the Space Wolf Geneseed seems more compatable with the Human body then other Geneseed too. hence it's ability to be placed in older then normal recruits.

this could be because of the unique genetics of the Fenrisians. it is rumored that they were genetically modified to survive on Fenris. this resiliance could explain the greater compatability at older stages for the Space Wolf geneseed.

the fact the Space Wolves ONLY recruit from Fenris also supports this.



the other explaination is that the older recruits were given the same treatments the older Knights of Caliban recieved. they were too old to become proper space marines, but with different enhancements tey were brought up, almost, to marine standards and joined the DA's and served as Line Astartes with the rest.

Owain wrote:^It's like some sort of genetically enhanced space-puberty. Also, off-topic, best sig ever.

Awww, thanks

a hostile planet like Fenris would certainly favor early development.

oh yes, very certainly, I don't imagine anyone surviving on Fenris past thirteen unless they were as buff as a jungle fighter.

the Space Wolf Geneseed seems more compatible with the human body then other Geneseed too. Hence it's ability to be placed in older then normal recruits.

Hmmmm....that's and interesting theory, but I can't help thinking that the wulfen mutation means that SW Geneseed isn't altogether stable for humans

then again I don't imagine the wulfen trait comes up a whole lot compared to the number of actual recruits they get.

Meh, the SW geneseed seems to have its strengths and weaknesses. The SWs seem older, on average, than most chapters. It is not unusual to see backgrounds where the recruit was a successful and accomplished warrior, leader, blacksmith, hunter, etc. So, it seems that the gene seed can be effective in older recruits for whatever reasons. Additionally, the Canis Helix seems to impart better senses and an inherent resistance to Chaos taint. But, there is a price. The Canis Helix sometimes seems to react in such a way that bestial features develop unchecked. Likewise, to some degree, the bestial nature is never fully controlled- even the best case scenario sees marines with at least supeficial irregularities such asfur like hair, fangs, etc. Additionally, it is not uncommon to see deeper oddities.

It is for these reasons and a suspicion of some cultutral practices that certain members of the Inquisition have taken an interest in the Space Wolves. They clearly deviate from the Codex requirements, and have some very unorthodox methods. However, they have also proven steadfats defenders of the Imperium and show great empathy for humanity. To this end, they have earned the admiration, respect and love of many whom they have aided. And the ire of those who they have rebuffed!

Im pretty sure the space wolves are in the minority in this sense, Most Astartes geneseed wont work properly at about post the age of 16. I reckon the technology to make proto astartes (Kor Phaeron, Luther etc) has become much rarer and less commonplace as it is almost never mentioned in post heresy fluff, Plus the fact that most of the Astartes creation processes have become ritualised suggests that different practices and methods for creating warriors would be frowned upon within a specific chapter.

I think you can pretty much get the organs as long as you are still going through puberty. So like 18 years old and younger.

I can imagine, in a world like Fenris, people starting to have their first sexual encounters around the age of 14.

Now, I haven't read good documents on vikingr customs on this, but in the late medieval times, the annals tells us of the marriages of the nobles and they went through that very early in their lives. Of course, most marriages where political arrangements made by their parents and the life span was way shorter... and that's exactly what I think that goes on with the Space Wolves.

Honestly, from what I've read, except some exceptional and resilient men and women, I can't think of fenrisians living more than an average of 40 years (give or take). They might induct older people anyway, in their 20's (mind you, if I didn't entered in the army when 21, my beard would have put Alan Moore's to shame at the pace it grew since I was 18ish) so Njal with his forked beard could have been easily been in his mid 20's.

I assume that, following my theories, that Ragnar could have been around 14 or 15 years old when inducted, and Lukas on his 17's, perhaps more, near his 20's.

14 is the absolute limit I believe.

My knowledge of human development isn't what it used to be, but the male body doesn't stop puberty until he finishes growing, which is 21. So I'd say that's the upper limit. They would also want to grab the younger aspirants for mental reasons. at an early age the hypno-inductions would take easier, and last longer.
On a world like fenris, or even just back in the day (viking era) a 40 year old man would be considered a greybeard, and ancient. You're a man at 14, have kids by 16 and probably die before your 25th birthday. So lukas bedding 12 women in one night... not too hard to believe. ... well, a little, but for different reasons