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I was looking for some clarification on what is legal for vehicles moving and turning. The rule book says that a vehicle can turn as much as it wants with out being considered moved, but I couldn't find anything about turning the vehicle when it moves.

Because most vesicles are longer than they are wide I've had some players say I cannot turn and move the vehicles a full 6" to still fire. They claim that any turning before or after my movement will add on inches to how far my vehicle has moved, giving an unfair advantage. Some other players have said that movement and turning are separate things so I can turn my vehicle and then move it, since turning take up no move.

From my discussions I've settled upon three options, but I'm not sure what option is the correct one.

1: Turn the vehicle, then measure and move.

2: Measure, and turn while moving.

3: Measure and move, then turn.

You can turn as much as you want, even if it does grant you an advantage. Perhaps not the classiest thing to do, but it is legal.

And don't forget your free pivot in the begining of the shooting phase.

Check out this thread - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/352197.page

To answer you though, you can turn before/during/after movement. If you are moving 6" and "turning" in the middle of it though, just measure all 6" from the start point and factor in the curve for the turn. So you might not stop 6" away from where you were (as to avoid going through terrain, for instance) but you still traveled 6".

Son 0f Dorn wrote:You can turn as much as you want, even if it does grant you an advantage. Perhaps not the classiest thing to do, but it is legal.

And don't forget your free pivot in the begining of the shooting phase.

thats gone in this edition so no free pivot, you have to do that in the movement phase.

lixulana wrote:

Son 0f Dorn wrote:You can turn as much as you want, even if it does grant you an advantage. Perhaps not the classiest thing to do, but it is legal.

And don't forget your free pivot in the begining of the shooting phase.

thats gone in this edition so no free pivot, you have to do that in the movement phase.

Yeah, only walkers may free pivot. That is why Stompas can move, expose their butt-hatch, poop models then turn to face the enemy by shooting again. I find the action hilarious and orky.

Psychosaur wrote:I was looking for some clarification on what is legal for vehicles moving and turning. The rule book says that a vehicle can turn as much as it wants with out being considered moved, but I couldn't find anything about turning the vehicle when it moves.

Because most vesicles are longer than they are wide I've had some players say I cannot turn and move the vehicles a full 6" to still fire. They claim that any turning before or after my movement will add on inches to how far my vehicle has moved, giving an unfair advantage. Some other players have said that movement and turning are separate things so I can turn my vehicle and then move it, since turning take up no move.

This is a common way to gain an extra inch or two and is 100% legal to do by the rules. It may not make sense, but that is the way to play it. Turning costs no movement what-so-ever by the rulebook. It's not unfair is every army is allowed to do it, just some have that advantage.

From my discussions I've settled upon three options, but I'm not sure what option is the correct one.

1: Turn the vehicle, then measure and move.

2: Measure, and turn while moving.

3: Measure and move, then turn.

1 and 3 are both correct ways to do it.

lixulana wrote:

Son 0f Dorn wrote:You can turn as much as you want, even if it does grant you an advantage. Perhaps not the classiest thing to do, but it is legal.

And don't forget your free pivot in the begining of the shooting phase.

thats gone in this edition so no free pivot, you have to do that in the movement phase.

If done in the movement phase, just on the spot, does it count as moving at combat speed for the purpose of shooting?

Son 0f Dorn wrote:

lixulana wrote:

Son 0f Dorn wrote:You can turn as much as you want, even if it does grant you an advantage. Perhaps not the classiest thing to do, but it is legal.

And don't forget your free pivot in the begining of the shooting phase.

thats gone in this edition so no free pivot, you have to do that in the movement phase.

If done in the movement phase, just on the spot, does it count as moving at combat speed for the purpose of shooting?

No.

Lordhat wrote:

Son 0f Dorn wrote:

lixulana wrote:

Son 0f Dorn wrote:You can turn as much as you want, even if it does grant you an advantage. Perhaps not the classiest thing to do, but it is legal.

And don't forget your free pivot in the begining of the shooting phase.

thats gone in this edition so no free pivot, you have to do that in the movement phase.

If done in the movement phase, just on the spot, does it count as moving at combat speed for the purpose of shooting?

No.

Ok. That must have been what I was thinking of. My bad

One misconception that people commonly make that are allong these lines is immobilization. If you start to move and immob yourself on difficult terrain you stop where you immobed, common thing some players will try to do however is where they immob turn in a different direction from the way they were moving... you can't drive sideways

Technically you can. Models in general can move sideways, and the vehicle rules don't place a restriction on that. They say that the vehicles can combine forward and backward movement as they go, but don't explicitly rule out sideways. For some vehicles (like skimmers, which must have vectored thrusters) this makes sense. For others (like wheeled and tracked ones) it doesn't.

That being said, trying to move your rhinos sideways isn't going to win you any friends, regardless of what the rules do or don't say

Yeah. If space is tight and it matters, or when going through Difficult when I could get stuck in the facing it has on entering, I only move my ground vehicles forward or backward.

Mannahnin wrote:Technically you can. Models in general can move sideways, and the vehicle rules don't place a restriction on that. They say that the vehicles can combine forward and backward movement as they go, but don't explicitly rule out sideways. For some vehicles (like skimmers, which must have vectored thrusters) this makes sense. For others (like wheeled and tracked ones) it doesn't.

I'd rank that up there with stating that a vehicle can move through a solid 3ft tall ruin wall because of the blip in the ruins section about models with cutting torches. The intention is blindingly clear in giving vehicles their own movement section and stating they can move forward and backward.

BlueDagger wrote:
I'd rank that up there with stating that a vehicle can move through a solid 3ft tall ruin wall because of the blip in the ruins section about models with cutting torches. The intention is blindingly clear in giving vehicles their own movement section and stating they can move forward and backward.

I have a hard time imagining a battle tank having any difficulty driving through the wall of a ruined structure. In fact, that's what the vindicator was built for.

Correct, but in game terms that breaks things since there is no gigantic hole to shoot back through I have a hard time imagining that you can't fire a siege cannon shell through a wall, but a rhino can drive through it.

You can fire it through the wall, but you wouldn't waste it if you weren't sure of what was on the other side.

There are a lot of silly things that don't make sense, but it's to keep the game moving quickly. With mechanized armies being so common, it would take forever to resolve little details of vehicle movement.

I feel it's balanced out, for the most part, by tanks being immobilized so easily. I'll take this whole mess over bogging things down with turning templates and destructable terrain.

The way I see it is vehicles have a max movement distance. If I am going to move one of my Rhinos or Raiders, I measure from where it is sitting in the direction it is sitting then to where I want it to end up and move it there. If I plan on changing the facing, I'll do that as I relocate the vehicle. Not move it to the destination sideways then pivot for the extra distance. That just seems wrong whether it is allowed or not.

It doesn't matter whether you pivot before the move or after. With a rectangular vehicle, if you move in a direction other than straight forward or back, you wind up gaining a little distance by the pivot. Most of the time it's less than an inch. It's just one of the little idiosyncracies of the movement rules.

I pivot during the move so I don't gain any extra distance. The max move I make, to include the pivot, is the max distance the vehicle is allowed to move and still do what I want it to: Shoot or just unload passengers.

BlueDagger wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Technically you can. Models in general can move sideways, and the vehicle rules don't place a restriction on that. They say that the vehicles can combine forward and backward movement as they go, but don't explicitly rule out sideways. For some vehicles (like skimmers, which must have vectored thrusters) this makes sense. For others (like wheeled and tracked ones) it doesn't.

I'd rank that up there with stating that a vehicle can move through a solid 3ft tall ruin wall because of the blip in the ruins section about models with cutting torches. The intention is blindingly clear in giving vehicles their own movement section and stating they can move forward and backward.

Mannahnin, I'm afraid this comes down to the old "permissive ruleset" arguments. The point is that only forward, backward and pivoting are allowed for vehicles, as no other movement types are mentioned.

BlueDagger, personally I think that driving through ruins is an awesome rule, I love doing it with my dozer blade demolishers, that tactic can really suprise people who thought they were behind cover. I always imagine that a lot of rubble fals down behind the tank, or that a lot of dust and debris blocks line of sight. I do see where you are coming from but I don't think that it is that much of a stretch of the imagination. Plus, destroying ruins would be tiresome as there would be no terrain left after a while.

Trickstick wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Technically you can. Models in general can move sideways, and the vehicle rules don't place a restriction on that. They say that the vehicles can combine forward and backward movement as they go, but don't explicitly rule out sideways. For some vehicles (like skimmers, which must have vectored thrusters) this makes sense. For others (like wheeled and tracked ones) it doesn't.

I'd rank that up there with stating that a vehicle can move through a solid 3ft tall ruin wall because of the blip in the ruins section about models with cutting torches. The intention is blindingly clear in giving vehicles their own movement section and stating they can move forward and backward.

Mannahnin, I'm afraid this comes down to the old "permissive ruleset" arguments. The point is that only forward, backward and pivoting are allowed for vehicles, as no other movement types are mentioned.

BlueDagger, personally I think that driving through ruins is an awesome rule, I love doing it with my dozer blade demolishers, that tactic can really suprise people who thought they were behind cover. I always imagine that a lot of rubble fals down behind the tank, or that a lot of dust and debris blocks line of sight. I do see where you are coming from but I don't think that it is that much of a stretch of the imagination. Plus, destroying ruins would be tiresome as there would be no terrain left after a while.

This has been gone over before. Essentially, the normal movement rules give you all the permission you need. To restrict the vehicle to only forward and reverse movement, you need to specificly do so in the vehicle movement section...which the BRB does not do. It heavily implies it on pg 57, but implying doesn't cut it as far as RaW is concerned. That being said, I think it's fairly clear that the intention was to limit vehicles to only forward and reverse movement, but we can't be completely sure.

...and I agree on your take of driving through ruins. I love the idea of a hulking tank smashing through the side of a building to get to the soft chewy bits huddled inside.