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What is the best way to use deff koptas?

Only TL-Rokkits or buzzsaws for cc?

Aim for side/rear armour or get close and orky with the saw?

Share your green insights!

Deffkoptas are great for three things.

1. Turn 1 Alpha strike post scout move onto enemy armour or anti-tank elements.

2. End-game contesting objectives that you don't have the troop support to hold.

3. Screening elements for your vehicles to help prevent drop-pods, deep-striking units from getting to your vehicles.

Hooooo boy... *deep breath*

Dashofpepper wrote:Deffkoptas are good for three things.

1. Turn 1 Alpha strike post scout move onto enemy armour or anti-tank elements.

2. End-game contesting objectives that you don't have the troop support to hold.

3. Screening elements for your vehicles to help prevent drop-pods, deep-striking units from getting to your vehicles.

1. Alpha strike relies on that kopta getting there safely. And in most cases, it won't. One less on another unit but otherwise, it's wishful thinking. It's more reliable when you get first turn but you're putting bets on a str7 attack on rear armour that's normally 10 so... don't rely on it.
2. I'll give you that one but again depends if it's alive. Kinda relies on you have it come in from reserve about turn 4.
3. Bikers do better screening with more bodies in speed-freak style armies. Horde armies, well, you've got so many boyz screening is self made. That or you use Kanz to screen your boyz.

I don't recommend them because on here people say "Twin rokkits, buzzsaw, flying solo. Go Get'm ork!" and for 70pts you can do much better with those points...

Orks sometimes lack the surprise element that deffkoptas can give you. I like fielding suicide deffkoptas, they don't always get to work (but that has detracted shooting from my boyz and kans) but when they do work they're well worth their points! Especially because you instant hit a vehicle that hasn't moved, 3 strength 7 attacks against rear armour 10 is nice.

The one tip I would share is to take a mob of two or three koptas and diversify the weaponry. That way you can share out wounds and they become very hard to kill!!

I'm going to have to disagree with you a little Juvieus. I always include TL Rokkit Launcha Deffkoptas with Buzzsaws in my army, and they are GOLDEN!!! Granted, I usually use them in the Kamikazi, alpha strike role, but I don't think I've ever played a game where my deffkoptas didn't at least make back there points and then some. With proper placement and use of cover, it's not too difficult to keep them alive, even if you don't go first. Or, if you'd prefer, keep them in reserve and outflank them. Just the thought of a possible Rokkit Launcha/buzzsaw attack is often enough to keep the enemy from using the extreme edges of the table. Honestly, getting in first turn side armour shot plus a ST7 autohit attack on the rear armour is not that difficult to do, as long as you are ok with the possibility of losing the deffkopta on your opponents turn. But, even then, they've done their job because shots fired at the deffkoptas mean shots NOT fired at the real meat and potatoes of your army. I agree that, with how I use my deffkoptas, it's rare to keep them alive long enough to contest objectives at the end of the game, but I still find them extremely useful and worth every point. (just don't take too many. 2 or 3 max).

Madmax1 wrote:I'm going to have to disagree with you a little Juvieus. I always include TL Rokkit Launcha Deffkoptas with Buzzsaws in my army, and they are GOLDEN!!! Granted, I usually use them in the Kamikazi, alpha strike role, but I don't think I've ever played a game where my deffkoptas didn't at least make back there points and then some. With proper placement and use of cover, it's not too difficult to keep them alive, even if you don't go first. Or, if you'd prefer, keep them in reserve and outflank them. Just the thought of a possible Rokkit Launcha/buzzsaw attack is often enough to keep the enemy from using the extreme edges of the table. Honestly, getting in first turn side armour shot plus a ST7 autohit attack on the rear armour is not that difficult to do, as long as you are ok with the possibility of losing the deffkopta on your opponents turn. But, even then, they've done their job because shots fired at the deffkoptas mean shots NOT fired at the real meat and potatoes of your army. I agree that, with how I use my deffkoptas, it's rare to keep them alive long enough to contest objectives at the end of the game, but I still find them extremely useful and worth every point. (just don't take too many. 2 or 3 max).

I respect your opinion good sir. If you find success with them, keep on using them I personally have had poor success with them when I testran them against various armies in my group. My other problem is the whole concept of suicide fragile units - partly goes towards me hating landspeeders (I'm like a madboy, go figure ). But yes I don't recommend them because part of the nutter group that likes warbikers as they do a better role for what I want - superfast reliable krumpin'

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Hooooo boy... *deep breath*

Dashofpepper wrote:Deffkoptas are good for three things.

1. Turn 1 Alpha strike post scout move onto enemy armour or anti-tank elements.

2. End-game contesting objectives that you don't have the troop support to hold.

3. Screening elements for your vehicles to help prevent drop-pods, deep-striking units from getting to your vehicles.

1. Alpha strike relies on that kopta getting there safely. And in most cases, it won't. One less on another unit but otherwise, it's wishful thinking. It's more reliable when you get first turn but you're putting bets on a str7 attack on rear armour that's normally 10 so... don't rely on it.
2. I'll give you that one but again depends if it's alive. Kinda relies on you have it come in from reserve about turn 4.
3. Bikers do better screening with more bodies in speed-freak style armies. Horde armies, well, you've got so many boyz screening is self made. That or you use Kanz to screen your boyz.

I don't recommend them because on here people say "Twin rokkits, buzzsaw, flying solo. Go Get'm ork!" and for 70pts you can do much better with those points...

Pretty sure he said Turn 1 Alpha Striking. 24" + 12" + 6" assault....that's the range for an assault for a Deffkopta first turn. You're saying 42" is unreliable to reach armor? 3 Str 7 attacks on rear armor that you are auto hitting...I like my chances to get at least a 3 for a glance or two, not to mention the chances it has to blow it up during the shooting phase (albeit low). For a 70 point model you are often times trading it for 100+ point armor, Deffkoptas are full of win if used correctly. Alls you have to do is claim it's going to outflank or not once you know if you are going first, if you play it right, it shouldn't end up being completely useless. If it ends up having to outflank, then it will be coming in from one of the sides and possibly getting a shot off on rear armor, usually not though, as they can be used at the later stages to keep out of your opponent's range and quickly contest objectives.

Can't disagree with the bikes offering screening, but the deffkoptas do that too.

Juvieus, see previous poster's note on alpha striking.

That aside, I responded to the OP. He didn't ask how to field Deff-koptas, how to blend them with your list, how to find synergy with them, whether to outflank or reserve them and in which situations....

He asked what to use them for best. Which are the three things I outlined.

Additionally, your note on #3 - that warbikers do it better.....deffkoptas are *primarily* taken as an alpha-strike unit. #2 and #3 are bonuses. Warbikers *CAN'T* do #1, so their potential bonus in utility features is moot.

Well eaven if i didnt ask those questions the "answers" are really interesting to read.

So keep on fighting about whos da best ork so i can be sneaky and clobber you later.

In my 'game in a bubble', koptas always do great. In real games, they disappoint me.

Against marines, I don't go after a predator. I go after a rhino or razorback and make a unit foot slog it. Also giving me targets for my big shootas, rokkits, and lootas.