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So- how do you think (basic-gw, not vraksian renegades) Chaos is evolving?

All 5 "major" Legions (for lack of a better term); in a single book, with World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Emperors Children and Death Guard-choices adding to standard Black Legion?

Return of special characters / units / rules for Word Bearers/ Nights Lords / Iron Warriors / Alpha Legion? All in one big book?


Maybe a split of the Chaos Gods and it's followers; for example:

Codex: Chaos Undivided: LatD+ Black-Legion+ Rest of Chaos undivide Legions, probably 0-1 squad of the Khorne Berserks, Thousand Sons, Noise & Plaquemarines as Elites + undivided Deamons (including undivided greater Deamon)

Codex: Khorne: World Eaters+ ex-imperial Khorne-cults (read fluff about assasins in codex Witch-hunters/Deamonhunters) + Khorne Chaos Deamons. Khorne can have artillery too.

Codex: Nurgle: Death Guard, Plaque Zombies, Fly Swarms, Nurgle Chaos Deamons

Codex: Slaanesh: Emperors Children+ (dare I say? some kind of Eldar?), Slaanesh Chaos Deamons. Return of Doomraider ?

Codex: Tzeentch: Screw that; Proxy w/ either new necrons or Grey Knights Just kidding, of course Thousand Sons Legion, Sorcerers leading squads of Rubic marines, rubic terminators, maybe even Rubic havocs. As I haven't read A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns jet (I read BL "in Order", at least HH series), I don't know if there would be any mortal human having a place in a 1K Sons army. Tzeentch Chaos Deamons are obvious


Those 5 I would like to see, but it's unlikely, I don't think GW would be capable of doing a "A big part of this codex is a spess merehns Legion, Deamons are not minor bonus, but essential for balanced army lists.

A single codex would blow my mind - there are at least 5 versions of defilers I know of, and I want them all. Soulgrinder not even factored in. Plus, I WANT rubic terminators from the apocalypse datasheet.


So tell me: What do YOU want to be part of any variant of Chaos Codex?

Check this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Vehicles

Lets not make anymore books, it's already impossible for GW to update everything in a timely manner. If anything we need to consolidate several of the books we already have.

Honestly at this point I'd really rather prefer to see the next Chaos Space Marine book reconcentrate on the Legions as a whole, not just the 4 Cult legions, but the bitter traitors of the Horus Heresy as a whole. De-emphasize the Black Legion, halt their progress towards becoming as boring and Mary-Sue as the Ultramarines, give them some interesting flaws instead of making them the "vanilla" Chaos template.

I'd like to see the CSM's once again presented as the dark nightmare that was borne from the excesses of the Imperium's own birth, the mighty heroes who built it with their blood and toil who now see it as nothing but a twisted lie and whose sole purpose in their bitter and spite filled lives is to see it torn down and annihilated, freed from their bondage to live life as gods of old in their all consuming vendetta against the corpse god and his sham of an Empire, or in the case of the Cult Legions, their descent into madness and ultimate servitude to the Dark Gods of Chaos and their whims. The CSM's should be the boogey man that haunts the Imperium's dreams, something whispered of but seen only rarely and in apocalyptic battles that change the fate of the galaxy or in secret raids and unknown attacks.

No more should they just be marines with daddy issues/emomarines.


It'd be nice to see all sorts of crazy pre-heresy weaponry, epicly elite Horus Heresy veteran troops with all sorts of blessings from the Dark Gods. Give us Daemon Engines and twisted creations of the Dark Mechanicus.

I really, *really* like the way the WHFB Warriors of Chaos book is done, it has its flaws but really well represents the gifts and boons of the Dark Gods upon their followers, as well as the progress towards Daemon Prince from mere barbarian, to dedicated Warrior of the dark gods, to a Chosen or Knight, then Sorceror or Exalted One, and finally Lord of Chaos and Daemon Prince. (e.g. a basic CSM would have a normal SM statline, a Chosen or Champion would have a higher WS and an extra attack and maybe higher strength, a Chaos Lord would have even higher WS, init, S, T, and attacks)


For more recent, non-Heresy renegades like Huron Blackheart and his forces, I'd rather see a list of modifications to C:SM made available for them in a future C:CSM book or a White Dward/PDF. That way you'd have your ancient Chaos Legions, and a template to use to modify more recent Rengades that would still primarily be based upon Codex Marine standards, equipment and organization rather than that of the pre-heresy eye of terror dwelling Legions.



To add a bit more spice for the Cult Legions, I'd add the Troops units for each of the gods back in, such as Bloodletters and Plaguebearers after any mandatory troops requirements have been filled, but to keep the emphasis on CSM's, leave the others strictly to the Daemons book, although rules for amalgamating the forces for doubles games and Apocalypse would be a great inclusion.


EDIT: also, reimplement Marks. Currently the Troops units are the only ones that make a distinction between Cult Legion troops and those that are affiiliated with a god but not actually Cult Legion troops. There's a difference between Berzkers and Khornate CSM's, just as there is a difference between a Plague Marine and a Nurgle worshipping renegade. Expand this to the other FoC slots, not just troops.

I agree fully with Vak. The Traitor Legions need a better job of getting an identity. In the 3.5 codex, that came from the veteran ability slots (clunky but represented the fact that many chaos marines were ancient even by marine standards), tons of arcane wargear and daemons. In the latest codex, that came from...being space pirates with old gear.

They should get more and better use of the marks/icons system, too. They should be stronger but also more expensive. Khorne marks should be cheap for, say, World eaters, but a considerable investment for other Legions/warbands, if allowed at all (could be the Black Legion's shtick; the only one allowed to have all marks, but at increased price).

Also, they need to re-think their HQ philosphy. The Daemon Prince is, currently, the cheap&efficient HQ, which is entirely anti-intuitive! BY definition, Daemon Princes should be the expensive but terrifying beasts of the HQ selection. Our Mephistons and Swarmlords, so to speak. They are the guys that made it.

Sorcerers should also get a bit of a revamp. These are guys that literally sold their souls and humanity for increased understanding of the Warp, and they are barely different from any other psyker! Give us pacts, mutations, rules that let them sacrifice friendly models for ultra-evil results.

Echoing Vak again, I can't begin to tell how much I wish they came up with cool Dark Mechanicum stuff. 10 thousand years freed from the dogmatic, unchanging religious way of doing engineering should have resulted in lots of wicked, experimental tech. But apaprently Defilers and shoving daemons in vehicles to make them shoot worse but keep rolling are the limits of the pure possibility/creativity of chaos.

No extra books, it takes GW long enough to update all their spaz marines and the other armies.

There should be one book that provides army wide bonuses is your list is mono-god, so long as you follow restrictions, such as can't take X unit and such. It would allow for undivided armies with no drawbacks but mono armies would get bonuses. Easiest way to appease everyone.

They should merge everything into one vanilla book like the Marine Dex, with LatD and Daemon army builds present (with dedicated Daemon and Chaos Marine HQ choices, and have Daemons, LatD, and Marine troop choices). It's something that's been long overdue since the 4th ed book.

You know what would really be cool? Is if they gave the option to customize lesser daemons and greater daemons for your army, to make your own unique type...but that's probably asking too much...

I would like to see Deamons and Chaos Marines united. More so, a real Codex Chaos should feature a lot of Chaos Forces without any deamons or Marines.

Another problem is, fine most Heresy Veterans that survived so long have missed the 10k years between the Heresy and ,,now", but they still should not be the same then the newest Traitors or recruited Villans.

There should be 3 kind of CSM:
-Heresy Veterans wiht a lot Chaos Blessings most likely all of them became leaders of their own.
- New Traitors: loyal Marines that went bad just recently.
- Scum: Scum that became Marines just recently, recruited by the Chaos Forces, miost likely with Geneseet faults or anything else (low Morale? Rage?)

And it should be more clear that only few Chaos Marines are around and their equipment is in decline.


I guess instead we will see Redemers and Crusaders and Stormbird becoming available for Chaos to sell it better.


I like the custom Deamon idea...

I would be so pissed if the new Chaos Codex (whatever the form) does NOT include the Dreadclaw.

Dark Scipio wrote:I would like to see Deamons and Chaos Marines united. More so, a real Codex Chaos should feature a lot of Chaos Forces without any deamons or Marines.

Another problem is, fine most Heresy Veterans that survived so long have missed the 10k years between the Heresy and ,,now", but they still should not be the same then the newest Traitors or recruited Villans.

There should be 3 kind of CSM:
-Heresy Veterans wiht a lot Chaos Blessings most likely all of them became leaders of their own.
- New Traitors: loyal Marines that went bad just recently.
- Scum: Scum that became Marines just recently, recruited by the Chaos Forces, miost likely with Geneseet faults or anything else (low Morale? Rage?)

And it should be more clear that only few Chaos Marines are around and their equipment is in decline.


I guess instead we will see Redemers and Crusaders and Stormbird becoming available for Chaos to sell it better.


I like the custom Deamon idea...

I love this space marine idea. Chaos Space Marines come in so many flavours because of the lack of organisation in their ranks. Some armies would all be battle hardened veterans, each a one-man army. Others a horde of power-armoured madman, as likely to shoot their friends as their foes.

This is a really good idea for making space marines and their chaos equivalents different.