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I've heard it suggested that the Kan Wall starts to fall apart around 2000 pts. Anyone agree with this? If it does, what would be the "best" build for a 2000 pt army?

DaNewBoy wrote:I've heard it suggested that the Kan Wall starts to fall apart around 2000 pts. Anyone agree with this? If it does, what would be the "best" build for a 2000 pt army?

Kan Walls take cheap, BS 3 Walkers that makes good firing platforms and spams them in 3 squadrons.

Unfortunately for Orks, they reach their upper limit in fielding quantity-wise a vehicle spam. Each successive vehicle after this is still either a squadron (buggies), are overly priced (Battlewagons taken by Nob troops), or don't have sufficient firepower to be a threat (Trukks).

The moral is that a Kan Wall at 1500 or less is a good list because an opponent has fewer points allocated to dealing with 9 Kans or vehicles in general. At 2000, that extra point range is still facing the same number of kans, but will more points to deal with armor.

"Best" is a subjective term here for what Orks can do and what your play style is.

A popular mech competitive build is a Warboss (Ghazz maybe), KFF Big Mek, 3-4 Battlewagons with Deffrollas containing 1-2 boyz squads with sluggas and choppa/shootas (depends), burna boyz, gear diversified Nobs, some Lootas, Deffkoptas, and a Truck of Boyz/Gretchin to round out the build. Aim at opponent's mass of units and smash.

You could also build a gunline, filling up as many slots as possible with big long range guns. Max squads of Lootas in cover, big blobs of Gretchin to support 2 Big Meks with Shokk attack Gunz, loads of Big Gunz (Kannons are best). It's a gun list, but janky (that means unusually/not properly tested; you'd need to buy alot of units and models that are not normally used).

The short version is that there are lots of different ways to build a good list, and each will suffer against certain other lists. The mech build however is very popular.

I second warone. BW rush is surprising competive because AV 14 with a 4+ cover (big Mek) means you are in your opponents face by turn 2 with most, if not all of your army.

I usually find a way to get to 5 BW's at that point level.

The "best" build at 2k for Orks is the one that you are comfortabale fielding and have the models for.

This is the only right answer for you.

My justification for saying so is because someone's ability to provide you with a list of models to use on the field is irrelevant compared to how you use those models on the table. And by the time you figure out how to use models on the table effectively, you won't need someone to give you the list of models to *put* onto the table.

In short, this isn't an effective short-cut to get good at 40k. Read Ork threads. Hell, read my threads. My batreps would be a valuable insight to you. Read some of the Ork tactic threads. Read other army lists and the comments made on them.

At the moment, you're setting yourself up for failure, and that's about it. Do *you* know how to sort good advice from bad? mrfantastical is telling you that 5 battlewagons in 2k points is his preferred method. If I tell you that's a horrible idea, who are you going to believe? And why?

Welcome to Dakka. Read more - this isn't the kind of question you want to ask.

I agree that there is going to be good/and bad advice on the Dakka forums, but I don't agree that by asking questions you are necessarily setting yourself up for failure. Whether you get it here or take DoP's advice and search through other ork related posts, you're going to find contradictory advice, some of which will be good and some of which will be bad. Also, what is good and bad is a matter of personal taste and your local metagame: you may do better with a list that DoP says is bad than one of his tournament lists. You'll find that some replies are good while others are poor. I appreciated warone's objective advice. If someone responded that kan walls stink at 2000 points and left it at that, I would not find this to be helpful.

Continue to ask questions, look for the advice that is fact ojective and apply it to your gaming.

JaCaCoo wrote:I agree that there is going to be good/and bad advice on the Dakka forums, but I don't agree that by asking questions you are necessarily setting yourself up for failure. Whether you get it here or take DoP's advice and search through other ork related posts, you're going to find contradictory advice, some of which will be good and some of which will be bad. Also, what is good and bad is a matter of personal taste and your local metagame: you may do better with a list that DoP says is bad than one of his tournament lists. You'll find that some replies are good while others are poor. I appreciated warone's objective advice. If someone responded that kan walls stink at 2000 points and left it at that, I would not find this to be helpful.

Continue to ask questions, look for the advice that is fact ojective and apply it to your gaming.

There is no "fact objective" BEST list. It isn't something that is quantifiable.

What I think Dash is saying is that having the "best" list won't necessarily make him a better player. It won't necessarily bring him success/wins. There is WAY more to the game than just having what is perceived as the best list. A good player will win with a list that he/she knows well and is comfortable with. There is a huge chance that this list will not look like one of the cookie cutter internet popularity contest lists. It'll be catered to the player's specific preferences and ideas for playing the game, thus work perfectly for him and contribute to making his play optimal by making everything feel more natural and intuitive for the player.

Simply asking for "the best list" and then taking whatever pops up here, building it, and playing with it won't really get the OP (or pretty much anyone) anywhere. It is good to read this stuff, and to consider it. It is good to know what's out there and what everyone else is thinking because these things go a long way towards defining the meta and current trends, and it is very important to know and understand these things (on the assumption that you're a competitive and high level player who is out for placing/winning GTs and such, where the information will be most useful). However, at the end of the day playing the game is what is most important. Being able to play a list to the absolute peak of it's potential, being able to make the right decisions within the game, being a good player, is what will win games much more so than simply having a good list.

the perception of "best" is relative in this game. It isn't outright quantifiable. It depends a lot on the player who is piloting the list. Dash's opinion of the "best" Ork list will differ from someone else's opinion of the best Ork list because he and the other person aren't identical players. They go about things differently, and their perceived best list will be one that is designed for their type of play.

All boils down to how many 1s you can roll when your playing orks! If you take 3 shokk attack guns you can put your last 5 teef down on it theyll all blow up in turn one the 1st game you field 'em, 40k's bout having fun remember orkses is never beaten in battle if we winz we winz if we dies we dies and if we runs fur it we can always come back for anuvva go see I like fielding Kanz against nidz,, and as many nobz as i can afford against beaky marines

Indeed - there is nothing wrong with asking questions that help improve your gaming. The OP strikes me as someone not ready to ask for a list yet though - he's heard about a kan wall, and wants to know what the best list is.

What he *could* have learned from was asking "What kind of ork lists are effective" or "How should I build an Ork list" or something along those lines. When those questions come up, I've got GREAT answers. But like I said....he's asking a question that isn't going to get him anything of particular value.

A Kan Wall is a good start point. The boyz you use for the list at 1500 are going to pop up elsewhere in other lists you may use.

Definately consider getting these models first:

Shoota Boyz x80- Good for Kan Wall and All Purpose Lists
Slugga Boyz x60- Good for lists that involve the assault more than anything else.

Warboss- Good unit for assaults and to unlock 1 Troop option Nob squad.

Deffkoptas- 3 and model on buzzsas ( or magnetize them).

Big Mek /w KFF x2- 1 for Mech Lists, and 2 for Kan Lists.

10 Lootas (minimum)- great anti-tank.

From there, any list you build will be wildly different, so start collecting regular boyz, some HQs, and then pick a direction you want your army to go.

Others factors to consider is the cost of the builds varies a great deal in time to assemble/paint and money.

Also is time to play going to be a factor? Are you planing on visiting tourneys. I play mech orks because they are lowish model count (for orks) and much faster to play (that and I am lazy and dont want to move 120 boyz a turn)

At 2000 the Kan Wall has lost its effectiveness. I agree with others who say that.

Definitely go fast. Wagons and trukks with lots of boyz. I am quite shocked at seeing some of the batreps out there on video. They play horrible armies, unless they're really uncompetitive 'just playing for fun' people.

I read this site, some of DoP's batreps and built myself a wagon rush list. It has 3 wagons and 2 trukks, among other stuff. It has given me all 3 of my ork victories (the ones in my sig). I modify it a bit each game but it is a strong, competitive list.

bucheonman wrote:At 2000 the Kan Wall has lost its effectiveness. I agree with others who say that.

I definitely can't agree with that statement. My peerless Dark Eldar struggle against my friend Heffling's Kan-Wall, and the only reason he isn't winning tournaments is because we go to the same ones. But his kan-wall can crush just about anyone (including Dark Eldar not fielded by Dashofpepper), and seeing him brutalize people with it has *really* made me think about it. Possibly even better than a battlewagon list *IF* you can get around the inherent flaws of its slow speed - meaning that Capture and Control games using spearhead deployment are going to be difficult matches if your opponent sticks their objective in the teeny back corner of their deployment zone.

Battlewagons are good, as long as you don't waste points tooling them up too much. I usually run two or three with deff rolla, one big shoots, armor plates and grot riggers. This works out to 130 points. Stuff like boarding planks and grabbin' klaws are rarely used, because the opportunity just doesn't come up that often, and concentrating on manufacturing the opportunity to use them is a distraction from what you should be doing. However, against Daemons and DOA Blood Angels, trukks and wagons are a waste of points because the enemy will be coming at you quickly enough, so it's best to spend the points on more firepower or hard-hitting stuff.

I'm a Kan Wall player, and I run a Kan Wall at up to 2k games. To me, what happens in list building is that you have optimal, sub-optimal, and poor choices. For how I play my Kan Wall, I'm taking very little non-optimal choices at up to 2k. Beyond 2k, because I have used almost all of my force organization slots, I have to take more sub-optimal choices.

Optimal - These are choices that will support all aspects of your army.
Sub-Optimal - These are choices that will either only support some aspects of your army, or support all aspects but do so with less efficiency than other alternatives.
Poor - These are chocies that are highly inefficient or don't synergize with your army in any way.

An example of Optimal vs Sub Optimal is Lootas vs Deff Dreads (taken as troops due to the Big Mek(s)). Lootas are highly synergistic with my shooty Kan Wall. Dreads are synergistic as well, but cost more points for the amount of effectiveness added.

I'm running:

HQ:
Warboss - PK, Squig, Cybork, Warbike - 150
Big Mek - KFF - 85

Troops:
2x (20) Shoota Boys, 2x Big Shoota, Nob, PK, BP - 340
(11) Grots, Runtherder - 43
(12) Grots, Runtherder - 46

Heavy Support:
3x (3) Killa Kans, 3x Rokkits - 450

Fast Attack:
3x (1) Deffkopta, TL Rokkits, Buzzsaw - 210

Elite:
3x (15) Loota - 675

Total - 1999

I like Orks in transports at higher point levels - just because they are easier to move & set up. Battlewagons & Trucks.

I have run Kan lists (at lower point levels than Heffing's nice list above) and Lootas are a great backup to 2 Kan lines & 2 Shoota Mobs. 45 Lootas backing up a Kan Line must be a hoot.

Kind of depends how long you have to play! I finally have enough boys fully painted to really fill up the board with huge painted hordes if I want to and they do look impressive!

At the moment, you're setting yourself up for failure, and that's about it. Do *you* know how to sort good advice from bad? mrfantastical is telling you that 5 battlewagons in 2k points is his preferred method. If I tell you that's a horrible idea, who are you going to believe? And why?

I would hope neither you, nor Mrfanastical would want to mislead me in some way, so I more to answer your question, I'm going on faith. But I do have some concept on the game and based on that concept I can decipher, albeit to a limited extent, what if likely and what is fanciful.

There is no "fact objective" BEST list. It isn't something that is quantifiable.

Of Course, I knew this before I even asked. I thought it might be implicit that there is no literal best, if there were I am sure I would have heard of this "unbeatable" ork army build. The nature of the question was opinion driven and was looking to draw answers like, "I have experienced that for most occasions you'll have success with this type of build for these reasons." Basically, I was considering a Kan Wall list, @ 2000 pts. I was concerned that some people posited that @ 2000 pts the nature of the Kan Wall list starts to lose its purpose for whatever reason. Where as I'd like to be able to experiment and play with all types of list I could imagine, the cost of buying and time of painting enough models to fit any 2000 pt list possibility is obviously out of the question. So I though perhaps there might exist a general consensus that @ 2000 pts, builds that incorporate a specific type of plan aimed at specific goals will but more practical to design my first complete army around, and I could expand from that.

Others factors to consider is the cost of the builds varies a great deal in time to assemble/paint and money.

Exactly! Which sparked me seeking as much advice/criticism I can get before I commit this time money. Thank you Jubear

Thanks to everyone so far to the suggestions, comments and constructive dialog. I did get some insight I was looking for. I know there is no real, catch all, most effective in ever situation build out there, I was just kind of looking for a foundation I can build upon and still be somewhat effective and fun at the same time.

I think I am going to stay with the Kan Wall list I have (but will probably build toward a BW list in the future).

Keep the comments coming, this has been very helpful!

I played a kan wall once. I hated it. Boring and I got the dreaded spearhead. I will try one more time.

Last night I tried my wagon rush again at 1750 and got a victory. It was cool because my opponent destroyed 2 out of 3 wagons in the top of the 2nd and I had to adapt to a new situation. That has yet to happen to me.

Warpcrafter: I agree about battlewagons for the most part. No red paint?

Ork in general don't scale up well we got a real sweet spot at 1500 but when you start into 2000 point ranges, as said above, your opponent has more firepower to deal with Orks. So in short those AR 11 slow moving tin canz tend to get blasted apart more (not saying it's ineffective just less effective)

IMO You need more Battlewagons the AR 14 can take more shots and hold up without just depending on the KFF cover save.

General_Chaos wrote:Ork in general don't scale up well we got a real sweet spot at 1500 but when you start into 2000 point ranges, as said above, your opponent has more firepower to deal with Orks. So in short those AR 11 slow moving tin canz tend to get blasted apart more (not saying it's ineffective just less effective)

IMO You need more Battlewagons the AR 14 can take more shots and hold up without just depending on the KFF cover save.

OP, I don't believe anyone is going to try to mislead you, but the opinions people give you are going to be wildly skewed in terms of their basis.

Joe Schmoe plays Orks at his local shop, is a complete noob about 40k tactics, but has good luck with his orks because his opponents are noobs too. Johnny Jones plays Orks competitively and wins tournaments time after time, and thinks that Joe's Orks are full of problems - but Joe doesn't have opponents capable of exploiting that. Joe thinks he does just fine because he wins.

To put this in perspective....I read General_Chaos's post here and my first instinct is, "Does he even PLAY orks?!?" As an Ork player myself (And I'm very competitive), I think he's full of gak and that the points he's making have no basis in reality. Then again, that might be his experience at his local shop, which are all the validity he needs to make those points. I don't think he's trying to mislead you at all. I just think that you should by *VERY* careful what you ask and who you ask it to.

If you plan on sticking with a kan-wall (and I think its a fine idea), I'd suggestion sending a PM to Shep and Heffling. Shep does (or did) run a very competitive kan-wall (unless I'm thinking of Kevin Nash, whom Shep plays against) and you would be well-served by getting their input.

I'm pretty sure Shep played it a bit, but I know Kevin Nash played the crap out of Kan Wall style Orks. Absolutely PM both of them, they're super friendly, easy to talk to, and they REALLY know what they're talking about (just like Dash).

Buch sent me the following PM, and I thought it would be productive for the OP to continue the discussion here. I hope Buch doesn't mind me posting his PM here.

bucheonman wrote:I want to give your kan wall list a try. As a courtesy, I always ask before using someone else's list. I want to playtest it on vassal.

I wouldn't call your list a traditional kan wall. It looks more like mass shooty orks. 45 lootas will wreck someone.

Any tips/advice for how to deploy? I guess the grots would make a good shield for the lootas. I ddi that in my last game. My opponent kept shooting them and they'd go to ground, losing only 1 or 2. They didn't die until they had sucked up 4 rounds of fire from a predator. 40 pts well spent.

My list is mass shooty orks. I'm not running a "traditional" kan wall, in that while I expect to do well in CC, my focus isn't getting into CC.

The basic deployment is:

Kan Line front and center
Both boys mobs with KFF behind the Kan Line
Lootas in back. In cover if I can, but because I cover such a long stretch of the board I will usually end up deploying 1 or 2 in the open. The will still get 4+'s from my own army.

The remaining deployment is variable dependant on the deployment, mission, opponent's army, and who is going first.

Usually, I put the grots on the left and right flanks, so that they guard the lootas from being assaulted in the sides by fast units. Last month in round 1 of a tournament, my grots prevented Deffkoptas from assaulting on either flank, and after several rounds of combat managed to kill both. This meant my lootas were free to shoot at higher priority targets rather than an immediate threat. If my opponent has outflankers, this becomes even more important.

Alternative deployments for the grots are to cover the back board edge if my opponent is using Snikrot or equivalent, or to spread them out to cover more area if my opponent is using a deep striking army.

The Deffkoptas and Warboss are highly dependant on the above. If I'm doing something like Spearhead/Capture and Control against Tyranids and going second, I will reserve the Koptas and put the Warboss with the boys. If I'm playing an army like MEQ and going first, I'll scout the Koptas and go for the first turn shoot/assault on his vehicles, with the warboss in the boys. If I'm playing MEQ and going second, I'll start with the Warboss with the boys, 2 koptas reserved, and one on the table. When I move up on Turn 1, I will have the Kopta and Warboss move together (seperating from the boys) and join up for a 3+ turbo boost cover save. Keep in mind that your warboss in a unit with the kopta will give you T6 for both models.

There's really a lot of judgement to figure out how to best use these 4 models. Any firepower thrown against them will typically be the same firepower that could be killing Kans or reaching the Lootas, so they synergize well in creating targeting priority difficulties.

To me, one of the most important skills in 40k other than risk management is targeting priority. I will focus on targets that have the highest combination of damage potential and vulnerability. Keep in mind when playing this list that you have 24" rokkits, 36" big shootas, and 48" deffguns. So you want to shoot your shorter range weapons first so you don't accidentally knock them out of range.


To the OP: If you're just getting into orks, I would highly advise getting the following:
1) The Black Reach Orks. This gives you a Warboss, 3 Deffkoptas, 5 Vanilla Nobs, 18 Slugga/Choppa Boys, and 2 Big Shoota Boys. This will give you the best bang for the buck for starting out.
2) A KFF Big Mek. Practically no Ork list doesn't have at least 1.
3) Lootas. Aim for 15, so that you can use them as 3 units of 5 or one unit of 15. These are another staple of most ork lists.

The Lootas also come with the heads, arms, and backpacks to make an equal number of burnas. So you could also buy another box of boys or convert Black Reach boyz to use these bits for Burnas.

After these items, the stuff you buy is dependant on the list you wanna run.

A "traditional" Kan Wall would want lots of shoota boys and of course, 9 killa kans.
My "Shooty" Kan Wall wants lots of lootas, kans, and 40 shoota boys.
A Battlewagon list would want several battlewagons, more choppa/slugga boys, maybe some trukks or burnas, and a couple of boxes of Nobs.

Dashofpepper wrote:To put this in perspective....I read General_Chaos's post here and my first instinct is, "Does he even PLAY orks?!?" As an Ork player myself (And I'm very competitive), I think he's full of gak and that the points he's making have no basis in reality. Then again, that might be his experience at his local shop, which are all the validity he needs to make those points. I don't think he's trying to mislead you at all. I just think that you should by *VERY* careful what you ask and who you ask it to.

Whatever you do don't dismiss Dash of Peppers advice unless you have Vassal installed cause unless you can beat him you can't give advice...

General_Chaos wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:To put this in perspective....I read General_Chaos's post here and my first instinct is, "Does he even PLAY orks?!?" As an Ork player myself (And I'm very competitive), I think he's full of gak and that the points he's making have no basis in reality. Then again, that might be his experience at his local shop, which are all the validity he needs to make those points. I don't think he's trying to mislead you at all. I just think that you should by *VERY* careful what you ask and who you ask it to.

Whatever you do don't dismiss Dash of Peppers advice unless you have Vassal installed cause unless you can beat him you can't give advice...

When your advice is "1500 is the sweet spot for orks but when you start into the 2000 point ranges ......your kan-wall gets blasted apart more....so take more battlewagons" and you don't bother to explain any of that or substantiate it when your advice runs counter to widely-held beliefs and uses of Orks, then the value of that advice *does* get questioned.

If you want to be useful here, substantiate your claims so that I can have something solid to refute.

I would assume, my fault, that most people can realize that 9 kanz in a 1500 point game is completely different that 9 kanz in a 2000 point game... but not to get dragged into an idiotic debate with you. I bow out.

General_Chaos wrote:I would assume, my fault, that most people can realize that 9 kanz in a 1500 point game is completely different that 9 kanz in a 2000 point game... but not to get dragged into an idiotic debate with you. I bow out.

It is different.

But not less effective as you've claimed. And while the conversation about the utility of kans at different point levels would be interesting and a worthwhile read for Ork players, I appreciate you bowing out to keep it from being an "idiotic" one.

Battlewagons all the way. Worth the points
Put some tankbustas in!!!!

Ah, found what I was looking for.

OP: I wrote this elsewhere, and bookmarked it for general "Tell me how to play ork" questions.
---------------------------------

I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
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1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian.

*edited out inappropriate joke about the acronym for Fighter Archer Guardian*




*EDIT* I'm adding information for the tactics article I'm working on.

If you're running a foot-slogging list, shoota boys are your friend. Slugga boys belong inside vehicles. In fact, I think you should convert your slugga boy mobs into shoota boys. In 5th edition, the shoota boy is the most efficient point purchase across all 40k.

Think on that - for 6 points...SIX POINTS....you get an infantry model with an assault 2 STR4 gun, who is WS4, STR4, T4 on the charge. In terms of math hammer between shoota and slugga boys, it's pretty simple. Slugga boys have +1 attack in close combat, and shoota boys have +1 attack outside of close combat. Since your Orks on the assault are only I3, you're going to strike last meaning that 30 boyz are going to take some casualties before getting their attacks back.

On the flip side, shoota boys get 2 shots before assaulting, and the enemy doesn't get to shoot back first and cause casualties - putting in any kind of hurt before you assault is incredibly valuable. And since it has an 18" range, you can shoot into a unit even when you don't have range to assault this turn. My advice for green tide:

Take all your troops choices as shoota boys. Consider taking a squad of gretchin - you can spread them across your front lines to provide 4+ cover saves for your whole army. Alternatively, you can take a squad of ork boyz to do the same. If you make them 'Ard Boyz they gain considerably in staying power.

Want to get real freaky? Take a squad of 'Ard Boyz, stick Mad Dok Grotsnik with them for a 4+/4+. Spread that unit out 2+ coherence to minimize the damage that blast templates can do, and have the whole thing move+run in front of your army. Your screening unit has 4+ armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, and the rest of your army has 4+ cover saves now. If your points allow it, what really tops off the list is adding some fast attack Stormboyz. You can put them into close combat, or have them multi-assault to shake/stun some tanks/artillery, have them get in fast and tie up enemy units (hello Tau!), or if the situation doesn't call for it, you can leave them behind your screening unit and keep them in reserve to get in where you need supporting assault units at.

Both Warone and Dash have some good advice/statements.
My "2 cents" is only take the bare minimum in each units' load outs and be mindful of who/what your facing. For the most part your going to see marine armies; in which case the best way to take out an army with really good armor saves is to just dump loads of dice on them. And what I mean by that is force the other player to make countless saves on their units that have really good armor or invulnerable saves. This can be applied to facing non marine armies as well. After that you need to figure out what tactics to run in specific situations. For example, run as much as you can with all your short range units right before they let loose all their shootas, sluggas, scorchas, burnas, etc. right before they're in range for an assault.
Ork Army List (Warboss Ironhide)
HQ
Warboss=105pt
-base=60
-powerklaw=25
-cyborg body=10
-bosspole=5
-eavyarmor=5
-shoota
Bigmek=85pt
-base=35
-forceshield=50
-slugg/choppa
Elites
Nobz=245pt
-base=20x6
-powerklaw=25x3
-shoota/skorcha kombi=5x1
-waaagh banner=15
-painboy upgrade=30
-sluggas=freex9
Lootas=210pt
-base=15x14
-deffguns=freex14
Troops
Orkboy slugga mob=165pt
-base=6x20
-big shoota=5x2
-nob upgrade=10
-powerklaw=25
-slugga/choppa=freex17
Orkboy shoota mob=165ptx2
-base=6x20
-big shoota=5x2
-nob upgrade=10
-powerklaw=25
-shootas=freex17
Deff Dread=95pt
-base=75
-scorcha=5
-extra dreadnaught arm=15
-dreadnaught close combat arm=free x2
Fast Attack
Deffkoptaz=225pt
-base=35x5
-twinlinked rokkits=10x5
Heavy Support
Killa Kans(grotzookas)=135
-base=35
-grot zooka=10x3
-dreadnaught close combat weapon=freex3
Killa Kans(rokkit launchas)=150pt
-base=35
-rokkit launchas=15x3
-dreadnaught close combat weapon=freex3
Killa Kans(Kustom mega blastas)=165pt
-base=35
-kustom mega blasta=20x3
-dreadnaught close combat weapon=freex3
Dedicated Trasport
Battlewagon=110
-base=90
-bigshootas=5
-armor plates=10
-red paint=5

total=2000pts

This list above is the list I ran this past weekend in my first tournament. For the most part it worked well, I placed 8th out of 16 and from what I learned overall its was a decent list for my first tournament, but i need to modify it here and there and employ better tactics, such as prioritizing targets/objectives better. Because at the 2000pt lvl with Orks you have to go big or go home; their is no in between.
Ild say tactics would determine what Ork build you should run with. In my case I wanted something that would at least be able get through the tournament and not get LoL raped. The list proved above average survivability, even with bad dice rolls, with anti armor ability; while retaining high scoring ability. Something that I also noticed is that the Kan Wall can possibly force the opponent to miss prioritize targets keeping scoring units alive long enough to capture objectives or keeping the big mek with KFF alive to help your Kans get that important cover save.

This thread is old enough turn ICs into squigs.