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Hi All

I've just started a beastmen army, just built the boxset, i'm new to Fantasy so am a little clueless plus don't really know anyone who plays beastmen.

I was reading my codex and quite enjoyed the character of four horn, and I also read the Tactica of GW website that talk's about feilding something like 80 ungors for about 500 points.

So I thought i'd ask can big mobs of Ungors with spears work?

I keep hearing that the trick to beastmen is numbers so am i better off running loads of gors/ungors or will that just end in trouble?

Is better to max out lords/Heroes magic item points or keep them cheap? are unnamed characters the way to go?

any veteran beastmen players out there your advice is welcome.


thanks
Spank

I don't know much about Beastmen specifically, but I do know that whenever someone starts a thread like this, a couple people will come in and say "X unpopular unit is fantastic, when you use it in this extremely specific situation". So my general advice is you can probably find a great use for them, but they're not a replacement for more reliable Gors unless you have something very specific in mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And hey! Here's my specific situation for you! I think Ungors at 5 points with a +6 ward are fantastic bunker units for lords and heroes, maybe the only area Beastmen excel.

Games Workshop will always recommend a 500 point unit that costs $200.

-Matt

looking at the Ungor and Gor together, im leaning towards the Gors, T4 in fantasy means a hell of alot more than it does in 40k, However the gor with a spear is 8 pts, the same as a dwarf warrior... and vastly inferior

so the ungor wins out, you can take a but load for next to nothing

600 pts for 100 ungors, that is very good value
add four horn for 75pts and you got a very zany character and a bleeding cheap wizard

Games Workshop will always recommend a 500 point unit that costs $200

Lol yup, thats why I asked always take what GW says with a pinch of salt and an eye on the price.

@formosa

that is what i was thinking, with ambush as well it would be al'rahem all over again

big gay al'ral sucks :(

its a bit nastier than Al too, you can come on there table edge and in this game a charge in the rear is very painfull (well aware of wording)

Remember though that if you use Beastmen Ambush you need a second unit of equal or larger size of the same type. So you would need another 80 Ungor in addition to the 80 popping in from off board.

I was thinking that Ungor skirmishers would be really handy along with warhounds for annoying amounts of redirection. The skirmishers have the slight advantage in utility due to being able to shoot things a little before they get minced, though they are a little more pricey.

2-3 core chariots supporting large numbers of spear ungors and whatever type of gors you like will not do you wrong. You get enough wounds you can lose but still remain able to fight. And if you combine this with lore of beasts shaman they can get some nice augment spells on them. Characters in general I would not overequip them. The common magic items in 8th has really helped make beastmen more effective. Doombulls are and always will be a solid choice. But beastlords can get quite high initiative and a cheap one on a chariot can be quite devastating.

Your spear ungors I feel work well in blocks of over 25. A unit like this supporting a unit of bestigors or minotaurs on a flank can work very well. Just dont give them a unit champion. Its a waste of points. You want to have a great tide of unwashed bestial bodies hitting the enemy lines like a sledgehammer with combat characters, wizards and the odd monster backing them up.

I don't like the ambush idea much. Cuz it can backfire and it's not THAT great. Just looked it up again, half the time it's bad or nothing.

Looking over Ungor vs. Gor, I think Gors come out ahead for the most part. They got better leadership which helps in Primal Fury, which is really what these guys are about. They can have +1 attack for 1 point.

I think Ungor is a tarpit for if the enemy brings out some zillion point mega monster. But in that case you'd want them as cheap as possible and not invest in spears. I would guess, anyway.

I just read the Beastmen book about a week ago. In addition to being the most brutal, by far, race in the game, and a pretty gory book, they are fairly interesting. Their augment magic can be good. They got some incredibly nice rares/specials. They actually have some good characters, who are good for their point cost. And minotaurs, which are about one of the scariest "big guys" IMHO.

They just have no war machines whatsoever--except for a Cygor chucking rocks. They aren't shooty. And they're ugly nasty brutes. They make Ogres seem respectable.

I think having a Bray Shaman is key to augment your guys. You start the Primal Fury and Minotaur Bloodgreed going, and they gain an awful lot of momentum.

DukeRustfield wrote:I think having a Bray Shaman is key to augment your guys. You start the Primal Fury and Minotaur Bloodgreed going, and they gain an awful lot of momentum.

This most definitely. With -1 needed to cast the lore of beast spells on your units this makes it very easy for low level bray shaman to constantly cast the signature spell on your units. Making both your units and characters into killing machines. With a BSB on top of that to maximize primal fury chances you have quite a deadly force.

The 1000 point list I wrote, with help from a friend, doesn't have a brayshaman in it. Is that a problem?

I like Gors better than Ungors the WS4 and T4 really do help and with the higher LD they will get Primal off more and that is the bread and butter for the Beasties. Character wise I usually run a Beastlord for th LD 9 and a BSB is a must as who doesn't want to re roll failed Primal checks, and I agree with Shamans to boost the fighting power. 40 Gor with FC and extra hand weapons is 345, hit them with a Wyssan's and that is a ton of WS4 Str 4 attacks with re rolls. Chariots to add punch and the ability to catch the things you beat in combat is a nice Core choice. I am a bit down on Ungors, with the smaller base size characters can't make way and must stand off to one side, and because I have a ton on 25mm bases and really don't feel like swapping .

I plan to have a heavy Gor core to my army mainly for the reason you mention plus I prefer the mini's. I plan to use alot of core units in general as i get the impression that is how beastmen are meant to run.

I was just curious about the abilities of the ungors, i'm nw to fantasy so i'm still trying to get a sense of how well thing perform and how stat lines compare to on table performance. Also I quite liked the character of four horn.

I know minotaurs and chariots are good but are they essential? sorry for all the daft questions but i'm just trying to understand the capabilities of my new side.

I wouldn't say minotaurs and chariots are essential but there isn't much else that can do what they do better. I wouldn't field a fully ungor force but a block of say 30 to anchor on end of your lines would not go amiss. Being able to fight in 3 ranks helps alot and they can tie up most big monsters for a turn or two whilst your heavy hitters move in. Mostly gors and other core is a great way to go.

Minotaurs aren't essential, but they are good at what they do. Though pricing them out, they aren't cheap. A lot more than Rat Ogres and kind.

Might try a min size unit of them and see how they do.

we talking Tuskgor Chariots (core) or Razorgor Chariots (rare)?

Sorry if I got the wrong way round, not got my codex on me.

Some told me that you can get 4 bestigors for 1 Minotaur, is that worth it? in 40k I genrally prefer to have numbers due to instant death and the like

i'd go minotaurs, they get +1 attack per kill and can have 4 attacks each (Dual weapons) 5 for the champion at str5, this is enough to mince alot of stuff, give them great weapons and they may perform better, but strike last.

combine this with the impact hits (1 each) and put a doombull with them and they can be very very nasty.

I would even be crazy enough to go 2 ranks with them

Are minotaurs considered Monstrous Infantry?

yes

WS
BS -
S -
T -
W -
I -
A -
LD -
SV -
Type: MI

Page 487

Btw Spanky, here is an idea for the HQ for beasts

Doombull
Sword of bloodshed (+3 attacks)

thats 8 str6 attacks, and +1 attack per kill

Sword of bloodshed on a doombull isn't that great IMO. Brass cleaver on average will give the same attacks and is half the cost.
In my experience the gear for running a doombull is about protection/ survivability, other wise your 300+ pt investment goes down way too easily.

If your dead set on using a doombull over a great bray (i like lv4 with shadow personally) try this:
doombull-- talisman of preservation, crown of command, gnarled hide, charmed shield, heavy armor, and either xhw or great weapon.
That is if he is running solo, has a decent save and ward, ignores steadfast, and shrugs off the first cannon shot. His weapon will depend on what you're sending him at (rnf or other big nasties)
if you're running him in a unit you can drop the crown and the shield for a magic weapon of some kind and maybe the ram horn helm.

The list I'm trying at 1000 is

Wargor
Sheield
Heavy Armour
Horn of the first beast

30 gors
Extra hand weapon
FC

2 x 10 ungor raiders
2 x musicians

20 bestigors
FC
Gnarled hide

3 Minotaurs
Bloodkine

Well I don't know anything about Beastmen but you've clearly managed to get plenty of bodies on to the table and in a 1000 point game those Minotaurs really could make a mess of something.

Looks like a fun army, have to give you a game sometime spanky.

Well all the models are built so It's just a matter of assembling them. I was going to do it this week but I want to get all my stuff painted for our campaign so they may be place on the back burner for a while.

Back to the Ungors question, there's a guy at my FLGS that plays Beastmen and regularly brings an Ungor Horde, to devastating effect. At 2000 points he usually has 50 of them, and they've only been destroyed twice. A 5 front unit has to weather 28-29 attacks that can usually reroll misses. Even at only S3, that's a lot of incoming damage for anything to deal with. Also with 50 bodies, you have to kill 13-14 before you start decreasing incoming attacks! So in short, yes, Ungor's in large numbers do work, they just NEED to be in large numbers. More than 35 seems to be the sweet spot. The bases also work with the Doombull base size, so you can add him to the unit. You'll also want to keep it in range of the Beastlord general and/or BSB to ensure you get Primal Fury. It makes a great compliment to a unit of 30 Gors as well. (Of course, this unit does cost about $125, so there are drawbacks)

I never leave home without a decent sized block of ungors with spears, 25 minimum, depending on game size. They are usually a bunker for my 2-3 shamans who are within 6 inches of the Shard.

Thanks guys for the input

Of course, this unit does cost about $125, so there are drawbacks

I don't mind forking out the money, i've played infantry guard, as long as they actually perform. I quite like hordes and would like a beastman army that looks like a wildebeest migration on animal planet. I will think about using some when I move to 1,250 along with a shayman.

Thanks again folks

I just played a game against WoC today and fielded a 28 model strong ungor unit with spears and the BSB in it.
It did weather quite a lot of damage, surviving a couple of high value spells from the lore of nurgle and a took a beating from a unit of six trolls to the front for three turns, enabling my Doombull and minotaurs to flank charge and win the combat.
I just maneuvered my minos too slowly, so the WoC player picked the rest of my army apart while the two units were slugging it out with the trolls.
I should really have had the flaming banner on the BSB, as the ungors would then have killed 2-3 more trolls just by themselves, avoiding 2 rolls on the eye of terror table.
I say you either want to take ungors as 2x10 small harrasing units with shields, with one ambushing and one running around on the table, or as an anvil unit, making it atleast 30 strong and giving them spears. Anything less, even at 1500 points is too little an amount of bodies.


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I only fielded 20 gors, but they performed very well with my lvl 2 shaman casting wildform on them from within the unit. I might bring another cheap lvl 1 shaman at 2k points just to cast wildform on the ungors.

do beastmen get a flat +1 to cast beasts lore(BRB) or is it only if cast on/at a beastmen unit/army?

as i have been looking at the spells and it seems fairly easy to make your ungors str6 t6

Nope, the has to target something from the Beastmen book to get the -1 to the casting value. So great for Wyssans but not so much for throwing an Amber Spear. As far as Minos over Bestigors never forget Primal Fury,re rolls Bestigors have them, Minotaurs don't and with both units being WS 4 all it takes is for the Minos to fluff one roll and they lose combat and run. Also Bestigors actually have a chance of catching units they break in combat, also the only unit that can take a magic standard.