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Hey, guys, I just wrote a tutorial on how to do an awesome technique - NMM out the window, mithril silver down the drain! Why paint the metal on an already metal mini, made of the real stuff!!!?

http://theseainttoys.blogspot.com/2011/03/one-tip-to-change-your-hobby-physical.html

Peatreed wrote:why paint metal on a model made of the actual stuff?

Because the paint will not oxidise and turn dull after a short period of time?

Maybe, but I learn't this tip from a pro modeler who wrote the osprey Medieval and Ancient Miniature Modelling Masterclass book, so he should know, however, he does say do a varnish/glaze over the top, so I'll have to keep an eye out for any dulling on my model.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Peatreed wrote:why paint metal on a model made of the actual stuff?

Because the paint will not oxidise and turn dull after a short period of time?

Maybe if you clear coated it afterwards?

daedalus wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

Peatreed wrote:why paint metal on a model made of the actual stuff?

Because the paint will not oxidise and turn dull after a short period of time?

Maybe if you clear coated it afterwards?

There was no mention of that in the tutorial posted. However that would solve the problem.

But then if you have not primed the model, how well will the varnish adhere to a polished metal surface?

So either you could quickly paint on boltgun, or leave it unpainted, easily subject to wear, and bad looking?

I dunno, it should be fine - maybe two coats would be necessary. It does mention glazing at the end. One clear coat should do, but really, I've had this painted up model for over a week now, and I've had no problems with the oxidizing - so far...

No offense, OP, but this is a pretty old method. Shep Paine (if you don't know who he is, google him) talked about this technique in a couple of his modeling books I have from the 80s.

Clear-coating with any enamel-based spray paint will solve the oxidation issues and will adhere perfectly well to un-primered metal (after all, this is what primer basically is).

Additionally, the quickest and easiest way to do this is with a wire Dremel brush. I actually do this on ALL my metal models (even when priming), as a smooth surface is easier to paint. I use a #428 bit with my Stylus on ~speeds 4-5 and just lightly go over the whole mini. Makes painting about twice as easy.

It does look good, ph34r - my pics probably don't do them justice.

While this is fine and dandy, you won't be able to replicate the effect on plastic models, thus making metal ones mis matched to the rest of an army.

It's fine for one off show pieces but rather meaningless in a world of plastic troop takeover.

The other problem you get with reduced scales is that "real" isn't believable. Light is hitting smaller surfaces, but these smaller surfaces are designed to represent something much larger. Therefore, over emphasis is required. This is why we highlight and blend. If light behaved properly at such small scales, we wouldn't need to pick out the edges that would catch light if displayed at larger scales.

While polishing the armour does effectively provide the real metal look, you can't play with the light, and you can't exagerate the small details. Undulating surfaces need to be painted, as shadow cannot pool in such tiny recesses because of an overexposure of light.

If I were to highlight flesh in such a way as to expose the detail on the face beneath a helmet, the plain metal helmet (even when washed) would look stange by comparison. Anything artificially represented such as highlight and shade would look out of place, or the armour would look unfinished.

At small scales it's pretty much a given that you have to represent the way light behaves at larger scales. That's why we have these techniques.

A realistic effect is often more striking than the real thing. Look at oil on vanvass paintings for thier approach to metalwork, while there was some experimentation with metal flake, they found the solid colour did not tie in with thier blended oils.

I spose, NMM are certainly better if you can do them. The book I saw it in is actaully about 80mm minis - so fair point, but it is more believable, in the way that it looks like the mini is wearing the piece of armour, rather than being a mini piece of art. Like I say, if you can do NMMs well then go for it. A good point about metal flake not tying in with the rest of the piece. I will show some pics of me using it on my large scale mini, when I get it (@ weekend).

Peatreed wrote: I spose, NMM are certainly better if you can do them. The book I saw it in is actaully about 80mm minis - so fair point, but it is more believable, in the way that it looks like the mini is wearing the piece of armour, rather than being a mini piece of art. Like I say, if you can do NMMs well then go for it. A good point about metal flake not tying in with the rest of the piece. I will show some pics of me using it on my large scale mini, when I get it (@ weekend).

Don't let anything said here put you off! The whole point of painting is that you enjoy it, and everyone else be damned. If you like what you make, then who are we to tell you otherwise. The above is the theory and should be taken with a pinch of salt and artistic license!

Ha! I've been wondering about that for a while now. Besides, would't an actual piece of metal, you know, rust and oxidize over time? I love how everyone's always spending hours and days making sure rust and wear effects look right, on metal minis.

Anvildude wrote:Ha! I've been wondering about that for a while now. Besides, would't an actual piece of metal, you know, rust and oxidize over time? I love how everyone's always spending hours and days making sure rust and wear effects look right, on metal minis.

Actual rust on a mini may look oversaturated. It also gets everywhere!

Phayse wrote:The other problem you get with reduced scales is that "real" isn't believable. Light is hitting smaller surfaces, but these smaller surfaces are designed to represent something much larger. Therefore, over emphasis is required. This is why we highlight and blend. If light behaved properly at such small scales, we wouldn't need to pick out the edges that would catch light if displayed at larger scales.

I bet that is obvious to everyone else, but now I know why it looked "wrong" (without getting into wacky physics stuff). Thanks Phayse, you probably saved me hours trying to get something to work that was impossible. Doesn't mean that I'm not going to experiment, but I'll have a better idea of what to expect when I do.

Making the mini actually rust would be abut I think it would be hard to control, so probably best for horde minis, like orcs (lotr), skaven, vampire count metals (whichever they may be), e.t.c.


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Chomo-Uri, how did your rsut turn out?

Definitely a method to keep in mind. Your results look quite good. I've seen a few folks do this with metal terminiator (the movie, not GW) type figs and at least one older metal army of Necrons.

Same basic method as yours, though I don't recall any polishing of the metal. They basically cleaned the metal added a detail colors where necessary, then washed, based, spray varnished and done!

Though there are some issues with plastics, I can see this being a very good technique for units that are all metal or metal warbands.

Let me tell you - the polishing is one key process, if you notice, the metal is slightly rough in texture, meaning it reflects little light, making it look dull. Polishing flattens this metal's texture making it much more reflective!

this technique seems to work best on the old lead minis and the effect is quite pleasing especially on swords, axe heads etc. But...it's problematic especially when you're down to the varnishing stage.

All I can say is try it. Get an old mini you don't care about and experiment. Never be afraid to try new (actually this technique isn't new...I was doing it back in 1982-1985) method. Let's just say I'm back to painting them.

I don't know why this technique is now practically unheard of, it's sure worth a try, although Gatling, your right, it is best used on sword/weapon blades, but would come up a treat on heavy plated guys.

It does. I used it several times on old Ral Partha knights. You can't skip the acrylic coat though. I had best results hand painting on a high-gloss overcoat.

The industry doesn't support the technique because it doesn't sell any paint, so of course you'll never see it in WD magazine. And it really depends on the metals used in the manufacture as to how fast the thing will oxidize. Once you start one of these projects it's really a race against time to get to the shellac. On the other hand, I've seen high-quality pewters that aren't overcoated and seem to remain shiny forever.

Why is everyone worried it will oxidize?

Metal models can sit around for years and they don't oxidize so what differnce is it if it was a layer of ink? I have a 1980s metal model it's still good.

Good idea though

Speaking from a metallurgical perspective, not all metals will oxidize. Pewter (real pewter, with actual lead) will actually remain shiny very easily.

Generally, the newest metal minis aren't, strictly speaking, Pewter. (laws about Lead content and such). They're a 'non-Lead pewter alloy' which isn't actually Pewter, but instead an allow of Bisuth, Tin, and some other trace metals. They don't have quite the low melting point of Pewter, but it's close enough for industrial work, and they will oxidize a lot easier than true Pewter.