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Hi, like the subject says, I quit playing around the beginning of 4th edition, but have kept some of my army around, and was considering getting back in to 40k.

…my first thought is that this army seems really small, though that could be because I used to play it as a Lost and the Damned army (sold off my traitor guard, and calling my mutants demons)


So, I took a look at codex CSM-
Demon Prince 130+
-Mk of N (psychic power?)
and/or
Sorcerer 130+
-Mk of N, Doombolt (seems pretty good), wargear upgrades (Plas pistol, icon, familiar, grenades)

5 Chaos Terminators 245
-1 pair of lightning claws, 2 lightning claws, 1 chain fist, 1 reaper AC, 1 icon (how does an icon work now- I'm not really understanding? Can I still get cult terminators in 5th ed?)

7 Plague Marines 211
-(now they all have pistols, bolters, and CCWs?)champ w/ power fist, melta

7 Plague Marines 201
-(now they all have pistols, bolters, and CCWs?)champ w/ power weapon, melta

Rhino 40+
-twin bolter, upgrades?

5 Spawn200

…this comes out to 1117, plus however much demons cost (only have codex CSM, so that's 468 points for 36…)

Questions:
Around how large is this army in the current rules?
In the current edition, how viable would the army be? Is it missing something big, in terms of offensive potential, maneuverability, etc?
Are there 1-2 purchases (pref. under $50 total) that would radically improve the flexibility/power of the army?

Thanks in advance!

…also, I've gotten ahold of a copy of Codex CSM, but don't have codex Demons or the main rules… any sense of how these have changed since 4th edition would be a big help

Really? Nothing? Is the wrong section of the forum to ask this question?

Thanks again…

I have very limited experience with CSM except in facing them. The list is viable, but probably won't do all that well since you are missing some key components like ranged Anti-Tank. The good news is however that is a good core to build from so upgrading to a better list won't be all that expensive. I'll leave the list advice though to CSM players since I wouldn't wanna lead you astray on your purchasing.

BlueDagger wrote:I have very limited experience with CSM except in facing them. The list is viable, but probably won't do all that well since you are missing some key components like ranged Anti-Tank. The good news is however that is a good core to build from so upgrading to a better list won't be all that expensive. I'll leave the list advice though to CSM players since I wouldn't wanna lead you astray on your purchasing.

Yeah, I used to run them in a Lost and the Damned army, where I would run a pair of lascannon sentinels, a basilisk, and a Russ for ranged support, but then GW needed to go and make my list illegal…

What point lvl are you wanting to play? Cause right noe you might have 1000 points

Unfortunately I can't help you as I know very little about CSM ... but maybe if you changed the title of the thread to something more descriptive.

"Need advice on old CSM force for use in 5th Ed"

Might get you the kind of readers you need..

Good luck,
Gits

Thanks for the feedback…

updated the top post

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Demon Prince 130+
-Mk of N (psychic power?)
and/or
Sorcerer 130+
-Mk of N, Doombolt (seems pretty good), wargear upgrades (Plas pistol, icon, familiar, grenades)

5 Chaos Terminators 245
-1 pair of lightning claws, 2 lightning claws, 1 chain fist, 1 reaper AC, 1 icon (how does an icon work now- I'm not really understanding? Can I still get cult terminators in 5th ed?)

7 Plague Marines 211
-(now they all have pistols, bolters, and CCWs?)champ w/ power fist, melta

7 Plague Marines 201
-(now they all have pistols, bolters, and CCWs?)champ w/ power weapon, melta

Rhino 40+
-twin bolter, upgrades?

5 Spawn200

This list has some promise, but also needs some trimming/adjustments. If I may suggest....

You'll notice that in the entry for plague marines, there isn't a limiting factor to how many marines you need in a squad in order to take special weapons. (Yes, PM's have offensive and defensive grenades, a bolter, pistol, and a CCW, and special weapons will replace the bolter should you desire.) Because of this, its not a bad idea to take a squad of 7 (extra Nurgly!) and give the squad 2 of the type of special weapon you wish to take (try not to mix and match special guns,(1 Flamer, 1 Melta), give the squad the same type of gun (2x Melta))

Also, due to the low(er) I value of Plagues, Power weapons won't be as effective (usually) as a Power Fist. If you're gonna spend the points for a Plague Champion, take the fist and a matching combi-weapon. With a nice group of 7 plague, 2 special guns, a champ with a fist and a combi-weapon, you'll want to put them in a Rhino. Some people buy extra armor for them, if you can afford it, but most seem to get away without it.

Considering the Terminators, most people nowadays run them in small "Termicide" squads. Kit them out with combi-meltas, deep strike them, blow up a vehicle, and then see how much longer they last before they die.

Icons of ____ give the entire squad the Mark of ____, while also functioning as a teleport homer. Anyone that deep strikes within 6" of an Icon will not scatter.

Spawn are generally considered to be one of the worst units in the codex, and spending 200 points on 5 them is a total waste. Instead, consider a heavy support slot; some like to run possessed Vindicators in pairs, while others like to take Obliterators (my personal choice.)

Don't bother with the sorcerer in this list, the Daemon Prince will get you more bang for your buck. The standard way to kit a DP is Wings, Mark of Nurgle, and Warptime. Hes tough but still surprisingly fragile at time, and will die to massed fire. Keep him behind your rhinos until he can safely strike!

Hopefully this will get you started. May Grandfather Nurgle smile upon you!

One thing that it looks like you may be confused about: If you want to take Chaos Space Marines, you are limited to the Lesser and Greater Daemons described in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. The days of taking Noise Marines along with Daemonettes are over. You may find Codex: Chaos Daemons interesting, but you can't take allies from it or anything.

I believe the only way to take allied anything these days is using Codex: Witch Hunters, now that the new Grey Knights book is out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and as for how the rules have changed since 4th ed... The biggest thing is that only Troops choices can claim objectives now. In addition, you can't consolidate into close combat. The rules also use True Line of Sight now, and it's really easy to get 4+ cover. I don't know much else as I'm a new player.

Thanks!
Power fists makes a lot of sense, didn't notice the reduction in initiative.
Too bad re: spawn, they used to be a lot of fun.
Wow, can't believe that about the demons: I thought that those were temp rules until Codex: demons came out…
I can see how the 3 special weapons would help… seems like this would make plasma more viable? (don't need to waste the chance of overheating on weak troops: just fire the bolt pistol)
would the reaper autocannon be worth it in the melta unit, or not any more?

Would 5 terminators, or 3+ 2 obliterators be a better use of points (obviously not even)?

EDIT: also, is it more worth it to go with the demon prince or use him as Typhus (he's a big scary dude with a scythe and termie armor, so it could really work as either)

Revised:

Demon Prince 175
-Mk of N, Warptime, Wings

5 Chaos Terminators 260
-1 pair of lightning claws, 2 lightning claws, 1 chain fist, 4 combi meltas, 1 icon (how does an icon work now- I'm not really understanding? Can I still get cult terminators in 5th ed?)

7 Plague Marines 211 *2
-(now they all have pistols, bolters, and CCWs?)champ w/ power fist, melta

Rhino 40+
-twin bolter, upgrades?

…which leaves 103 points in a 1k game.

I could get 7 demons and a melta for one of my squads, I guess?

For a larger game:
The above, plus 2 units of 14 demons, plus a few squad upgrades, leaves me room for a tank or some such for heavy support?

Thanks again

For 1k, I think you might like something along the lines of:

Demon Prince
-MoN, Warptime, Wings
175

3x Chaos Terminators
-Chainfist
-3x Combi-Melta
120

7x Plague Marines
-2x Plasma Guns, Personal Icon
-Plague Champion, Power Fist, Combi-plasma
-Chaos Rhino
281

7x Plague Marines
-2x Meltaguns, Personal Icon
-Plague Champion, Power Fist, Combi-melta
-Chaos Rhino
271

2x Obliterators
150

=997

You're not exactly saturating the field with units at the beginning of the game, but you have the option to deepstrike the Terminators and Obliterators if you wish, and if they come down close to the icon, no worries about scatter.

I took the icon off of the Terminator squad as that extra Toughness won't really serve them too well, given already their 2+ armor save. While this makes them slightly less Nurgly, it allows you to fit in the 2 Obliterators, which really give you some much needed long-range support.

If you're not too keen on using the Personal Icons on the plague squads, you can remove them both and give the Terminators a Power Fist instead.

That looks pretty good. I'm pretty fond of having 1-2 "grunts" (i.e. little to no upgrades) in any expensive unit, just to absorb the first hit, so I think that holding on to the marks is worth it, especially with 2 expensive deep striking units, and I can see why, especially in a 3-man unit, a mark of nurgle isn't really needed.

Well, I guess I should find a copy of the main rules to mooch off of before they hit the table…

Thanks again.