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I've always wanted a chaos dwarf army, and with the new mantic figs, I'm looking at finally getting one. With the lack of anything near official, I'll be running my chaos dwarves just as normal dwarves.
This army is going to be CHEAP, around $200 out the door.
I played around with many medium sized units with my dark elves, and was pretty happy with the results.
So, here's my dwarf take on that idea.

Rune Lord on anvil, shield, rune of stone, rune of shielding (T10, 2+ armor, 2+ ward vs ranged attacks and spells)
3x15 dwarf warriors, great weapons, standard and musician
2x15 Long Beards, shields, standard and musician
15 Rangers, great weapons, standard and musician
3x10 Thunderers, standard and musician
3x Grudge throwers
2x Gyrocopters


The plan is pretty simple. Smite the enemy BSB to try and slow his advance from the rest of the army. Lob big rocks and blasts of steam at any enemy unit that is too huge. Use long beards for re-rolls on panic, and envelop the enemy.
This army will consist of 3 battle boxes of mantic chaos dwarves, along with a converted anvil, and 2 converted gyrocopters.
I'm planning on dwarf riding small dragon for gyro, a bull centaur on a shrine for the anvil, the rockets for grudge throwers, and everything else is the plastic chaos dwarves.
120 dwarf infantry is a pretty solid start IMO, and I think the templates + anvil will let me pummel the enemy hordes well enough so that my infantry can finish them.
I did want a BSB, but as I discovered with my dark elf MMU force, having more units that can afford to flee often works better than dropping a big bullseye (BSB) on the table.


Thought?

-Matt

Just be careful about initiative or die spells/items on that Anvil. Is it classified as a War Machine? If so, it automatically fails them.

Yup, purple sun and pit of shades will be a problem; but those are always problems with dwarves.

I do have a lot of units, so odds are good I'll be placing the anvil well after my opponent has deployed his wizards. In the even of an Initiative threat, I'll just deploy as far from the wizard as possible, and slow his advance with rangers and anvil smite.
Same plan for skaven with their stinky brass orb. Anvil the General/BSB and then shell the hell out of the warlock who didn't fire the doom rocket.

-Matt

Haha, sounds like a plan! How do the Rangers work out for you? I don't see them taken very often.

Hmm maybe it would be beneficial to have a cannon there for something big or heavily armored. Although you might have to drop something to change one of the throwers into a cannon

I'm very interested to see if this works. I'd suggest keeping the number of units the same, but bulking up at least one (and making a few even smaller). The smaller units will still divert, the bigger units will have some staying power, and you'll still have some middle sized units too.

I just think you need something a bit bigger to pose a threat to some of the tougher nuts out there, and to take full advantage of what the anvil can do for your movement tricks.

Kirbinator wrote:Haha, sounds like a plan! How do the Rangers work out for you? I don't see them taken very often.

Rangers work so well, I beg to allow special characters, just so I can take 2 units.

-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Red_Zeke wrote:I'm very interested to see if this works. I'd suggest keeping the number of units the same, but bulking up at least one (and making a few even smaller). The smaller units will still divert, the bigger units will have some staying power, and you'll still have some middle sized units too.

I just think you need something a bit bigger to pose a threat to some of the tougher nuts out there, and to take full advantage of what the anvil can do for your movement tricks.

I tried that with my dark elves, and discovered that having a lot of units the same size made it very difficult for my opponent to plan. With ~15 man units,(all under 200 points each), I don't have a clear target for my opponent to drive at. This makes every unit I have expendable, and really opens up a lot of tactical options.
Bait and Flee or Hammer and Anvil have clearly identifiable units to fill those rolls, very often telegraphing your intentions to your opponent.
With this type of build, you'll have a very hard time guessing who holds and who flees.

I'm not planing on movement tricks with the anvil. I'm looking at it as a way to stall enemy deathstars and hero hammers so that I can put my 60 great weapons to work.
-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Rangers work so well, I beg to allow special characters, just so I can take 2 units.

+1 to this. In 8th, the mandatory great weapons on rangers aren't really a hindrance. Which means you're just looking at the bargain price of 1 point per model to scout a ranked up unit. Awesome.

I'm not planing on movement tricks with the anvil. I'm looking at it as a way to stall enemy deathstars and hero hammers so that I can put my 60 great weapons to work.

I suppose with 2 gyros, this could actually work. I find it hard to pass up getting flank charges on unsuspecting units, but maybe if you only have to fight the smaller stuff. So delay the big unit, shoot the others and clean up with MMU? Do you have the models for these, and will we be seeing reports?

Red_Zeke wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Rangers work so well, I beg to allow special characters, just so I can take 2 units.

+1 to this. In 8th, the mandatory great weapons on rangers aren't really a hindrance. Which means you're just looking at the bargain price of 1 point per model to scout a ranked up unit. Awesome.

I'm not planing on movement tricks with the anvil. I'm looking at it as a way to stall enemy deathstars and hero hammers so that I can put my 60 great weapons to work.

I suppose with 2 gyros, this could actually work. I find it hard to pass up getting flank charges on unsuspecting units, but maybe if you only have to fight the smaller stuff. So delay the big unit, shoot the others and clean up with MMU? Do you have the models for these, and will we be seeing reports?

I'm waiting on the release of the chaos dwarves through TheWarStore to purchase the infantry and warmachines, and I'm looking for suitable small dragons for the gyrocopters now. I'll be 5-6 months away from getting a game in with these guys on the table.

-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just one more point, with the MMU getting flanks isn't all that difficult. And as long as 10 S5 attacks is winning me combat (or not breaking) I will get flanks fast enough.

A good part of the MMU playstyle is to absorb hammer units into the center mass, and then engulf them.

-Matt

I guess I'm thinking that many hammer units I face tend to buzzsaw through my dwarfs, whatever their equipment. Example: This weekend, a charge from chosen w/halberds killed 15 great weapon warriors, who only killed a couple back. Without steadfast, I'd have been running.

Still, I fully support non-standard ways of approaching the game, and look forward to hearing about how it goes...

Red_Zeke wrote:I guess I'm thinking that many hammer units I face tend to buzzsaw through my dwarfs, whatever their equipment. Example: This weekend, a charge from chosen w/halberds killed 15 great weapon warriors, who only killed a couple back. Without steadfast, I'd have been running.

Still, I fully support non-standard ways of approaching the game, and look forward to hearing about how it goes...

And what happened in the 2nd round against the chosen?
My experience has been that if you can't hold your own against a chain saw, you're better off limiting your losses and getting out of the way. With my build, I'd cut the chosen units move in half, and pepper them with thunderers, steam and stones.

-Matt

They sliced right through in the second round. I'd used a stack of 10 warriors to delay them earlier, so this was the 5th turn and they didn't get to kill any more.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's huge value in the sacrificial units to get you flanks. I'm just concerned that you'll hit a unit, it will be steadfast because you're too small, and then turn and chew up your next attacker.

I'm not trying to be negative about this list. I'm excited for it, and hope it works. Just trying to identify concerns. I may even see if I have the models to run it while you're still building to give feedback, and compare notes.

Red_Zeke wrote:They sliced right through in the second round. I'd used a stack of 10 warriors to delay them earlier, so this was the 5th turn and they didn't get to kill any more.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's huge value in the sacrificial units to get you flanks. I'm just concerned that you'll hit a unit, it will be steadfast because you're too small, and then turn and chew up your next attacker.

I'm not trying to be negative about this list. I'm excited for it, and hope it works. Just trying to identify concerns. I may even see if I have the models to run it while you're still building to give feedback, and compare notes.

The same style of list with lots of 18 to 20 strong dark elves worked very well. As a side through, I might convert those rocket launchers to fire more level to the ground, drop the standards in the thunderer units and call the rocket launchers cannons.
I actually considered going with all 10 man units, and fielding 12 units of 10. In the end, I bumped to 15; not for the rank, but to allow me to take 5 losses an still hit back with the 10 S5 attacks.


What I've liked about the MMU idea is that not only does it seem to be working, but it's a lot of fun. By giving up units, your opponent is having a good time, as well as you.
If you go the big block route, you have so few units, the game can swing very quickly one way or the other. With more units, it seems to make for a more exciting game.

-Matt

That last bit is Truth, pure and simple.