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Hi Dakka! So I'm posting this because I want to get peoples opinions on the Leman Russ and maybe how to use them.

You see at my local FLGS people hate the Leman Russ. Every...single...Mech Guard army uses pretty much every type of tank/flyer/artillery (with the exception of the Valkyrie and Basalisk but those are obviously bad) and no one uses the Leman Russ's...any of them!

I for one like the Leman Russ standard variant, Demolisher, and Executioner and I want to start a Mech Guard army that uses 3 Demolishers but everyone at my FLGS says don't do it.

I want to know why so many people hate the Leman Russ's, and if you don't hate them how do you make them work in a Mech Guard list? Is there really only like 1-3 Mech Guard lists out there or can you make a seriously competitive one using Leman Russ tanks to back it up?

Thanks for the help Dakka!

I feel if you take demolishers, you have to build around them. People like their parking lot style long range, and in that regard the basilisk, manticore, medusa, and hydra flak tank are much better...since they put out more firepower for less points with more range.

That being said, demolishers are good, executioners are better, but they are expensive for what you get.

Not a serious fan of the demolisher, due to the short range, but I know my opponents at my FLGS seriously dislike my LRBT and Executioners. Normal Russes destroy MEQ, or if no viable infantry targets, can still be a decent threat against av12 due to ordinance rule giving you 2D6 take the highest. And Executioners make TEQ cry, especially w/ plasma sponsons, though that gets expensive.

Also, take exception to Basilisk and Valkyries being called bad. Both are situational, Valks are good objective grabbers with vets, and with them you aren't wasting 3 TL Lascannons by zooming them around. Basilisks I've had good luck with as MEQ killers, or with ordinance rules again, to kill even Land raiders, plus having one turn around and flame some outflanking scouts and killing them is quite fun.

It all depends on the local meta game.

Mechanized melta>LRBT They just are not much against an army with a lot of fast melta weapons.

LRBT>Missile spam. If another army is loaded with missile spam the LRBT suddenly becomes very useful.

I use the standard russ, with a hull lascannon...a battle cannon is still a battle cannon and I like the lumbering behemoth rule, allowing me to fire the lascannon in conjunction with the main gun....

I also use the bassie a lot, it is not bad at all (it can fire indirect below the 36" IF min range folks, people tend to overlook this fact).

The valkyrie with the MRP is also a great way to transport a key infantry unit across the board. The vendetta is more of a gunship rather than a transport, while the valk is the other way around.

The reason why the russ in not as often seen nowadays is that the new IG dex has brought in a lot more good toys in the HS slot, so it is not the automatic choice like it always was before...

Good for you Sanguinis! Leman Russ tanks made me the man I am today!

There's nothing wrong with them, they are just big targets. I never planned on having any in my Mech IG, but after i bought one on an impulse they have never left my side. I've got two now, with plans for a third because I like squadrons of things!

The best advide I've always seen here on Dakka is, don't bother getting the sponson weapons if you're going to be moving them around. Protect them with a cheap unit of troops to soak up enemy flankers and don't bother with the Punisher no matter how much you love the look of a giant minigun!

Oh, and Pask is your best friend!

Good hunting solider!

It's been my experience that you should not depend on them to do anything but draw fire from fast moving melta, outflanking CC, or railguns for a couple turns, fire off a battlecannon round or two, and then die.

If you're betting on that taking the heat from your mechvets, great. If you are depending on them to be the backbone of your power projection...Uh...You will probably drop them from your list in favor of more mechvets, non-LOS ordnance, vendettas, or even armored sentinels.

I run two Demolishers in my list and they're ace. They draw fire away from my more vulnerable Chimera/Vendettas and nothing, unit or vehicle, wants to get hit by a S10 AP2 ordnance.

I keep them cheap; hull heavy flamer/bolter, no sponsons. It'll be moving constantly to minimise assault damage so points spent on sponsons is points wasted. You could opt for the lascannon should you wish to go vehicle hunting, but you have cheaper, more effective options elsewhere for this.

Russes are awesome as they combine big guns with strong AV for a decent price. They are also one of the only two placed in an IG army where you can get plasma cannons (Executioner). I'd say opt for two and see how you get on.

L. Wrex

3 x basilisk for 225 points is not crap. Its actually insane. Watch an entire ork horde dissappear in a red mist as they use the multiple barrage rules to decimate them (or just direct fire) and fire while moving!


The best way to run leman russ is with no sponsons, that way you get more leman russ!

I have fielded an executioner with 2 plasma sponsons, downed a trygon in 2 turns and decimated a bunch of marines too, always make their points back if taken against the correct enemy (against guard or orks their are bigger fish in the sea).

Leman russ demolishers are night mares, destroy 2+ save units and instant death nobs. If you get hit by a Democannon, your in for a hell of a bad day. They can take out literally any target in the game effectively, they even scare monoliths. No ones gunna wanna deep strike and not run instead of shoot near one of these babies. Screw the range, 1 demo and 2 LRBT makes for one hell of a hard tactical decision. Fight the LRBT at range, or go in close and risk the democannon.


Firepower, always firepower. I find the leman russ exterminator to be one of the worst units, but others tend to disagree. Dont ever...take a leman russ eradicator. Punishers are also fun but crap.

Jaon wrote:3 x basilisk for 225 points is not crap. Its actually insane. Watch an entire ork horde dissappear in a red mist as they use the multiple barrage rules to decimate them (or just direct fire) and fire while moving!

I agree that 3x basilisk for 225 points is insane. It actually costs 375. 225 points is the cost of three Griffons or Hydras.

The trick with the Russ is that you have to run it the right way. That way is cheap. Run them as either Vanilla tanks with few if any upgrades, or Demolishers in much the same way. Resist the urge to put sponsons or lascannons on them, and you should be in a good place. A lot of people love the Executioner with plasma sponsons, but I can only assume those people have some magic way of safeguarding their tanks better than I do, because when I run one, it's usually the first thing to go.

Also, the Basilisk isn't crap. I assume you're one of those Medusa fans... Sure the Basilisk seems underpowered, but it's in a lot of ways better than a Medusa against anything with side armor lower than front, and it can pick off MEQ hiding from LOS. And it does it all while not exposing itself, unlike the Medusa.

And it's cheaper.

Usually I prefer Manticores and Hydras to Russes, but last night I used 2 plasma boat Executioners instead.

They performed a little better than expected, but I won't run them with sponsons again.

As far as variants go, I only use the Demolisher in addition to the Executioner. The rest are either done better elsewhere or overcosted.

"I want to start a Mech Guard army that uses 3 Demolishers but everyone at my FLGS says don't do it."

Do it, with creed and scout the squadron.

I actually found the 2 normal russes and one demolisher works better, in a gunline style army, they are a great fire magnet though!

I was torn between running 2 Medusae and a Manticore, or two Demolishers with plasma sponsons. In the end, I'm going to be running the Demolishers. They don't have the range of the other two units but AV14 is a big deal. They also don't give up much in terms of firepower. For the points, I can afford 2x Demolishers w/ Plas sponsons and Hull Lascannons. With the new Terminator-heavy meta, I'm hoping that these will provide sufficient close range threat and a hard counter to missile spam. On the other hand, they're the only two things in the army worth lancing or melta-ing, so the trick will be keeping them out of melta range and behind tanks for cover.

Thanks for the tips guys these are all great so keep em coming.

I apologize if it seems I said the Basilisk was crap I'm just coming off the meta-game at my store, people tend to run Medusas and Manticores. I used to be a Medusa fan but found that the Manticore is better for anti-swarm.

Here's my real problem. I have made two lists, both of them use pretty much the same HQ's/Troops/Fast attack, but where they differ is in the Heavy Support department. One list uses 3 Demolishers with sponsons (which I'm prob gonna change because a lot of you don't like sponsons) and 2 Manticores, the other list uses 3 Hydra Flak Cannons and 2 Manticores.

I personally like the one with the 3 Demolishers because I think front AV 14 is really a menace to deal with when it comes to long range anti-tank, but the Meta at my store is people use Melta like you wouldn't believe. The other list is really good because it's a lot less points sunk into the Heavy Support slot and therefore has more tanks but I might have more points if I take the sponsons off of the Demolishers.

My last question is, since most of you seem to be on agreement with this, is there ANY use at all for the Eradicator or Punisher? I would think the Eradicator is good for EeQ especially if you have some annoying Guardian squads or even Lootas that are in cover and need to die. I think the Punisher could be good if you give it Heavy Bolter sponsons, that means standing still 29 Str 5 shots and 9 of them are AP 4, and even moving you still get 23 Str 5 shots. I don't know I'm just spit balling though so give me your guys opinions.

Eradicator is good against anything non-MEQ, non-mech, and non-FNP. Because those three combinations are rather rare, that generally translates to 'not very good'. You're golden against a footslogging wych cult army list, but that's about it.

Punisher, counterintuitively, is a sniper tank built for killing off very small model counts of infantry dispersed in cover.

I keep a couple modular Russes around and they almost always find their way into my lists. Lots of MCs? Executioner with plasma sponsons to the rescue. MEQ army? Best take a standard Russ or a Demolisher and get stuck in with the infantry.

As for the Punisher, while it looks fun on paper, it just doesn't perform. At a roughly a third of the price, I can get another autocannon/grenade launcher squad which will engage the same targets more effectively and, if added to a platoon, isn't an easy KP. For significantly less, I could add a squad of mechvets.

The Punisher looks fun and I take it in friendly games for laughs, but it's Str3/Ap- and doesn't even get Rending.

Owain wrote:I keep a couple modular Russes around and they almost always find their way into my lists. Lots of MCs? Executioner with plasma sponsons to the rescue. MEQ army? Best take a standard Russ or a Demolisher and get stuck in with
The Punisher looks fun and I take it in friendly games for laughs, but it's Str3/Ap- and doesn't even get Rending.

It's actually Strength 5, but that still doesn't it cut it since it's such short-ranged and no AP that it puts itself in a bad position against things like melta or possibly assualt.

It definatly depends on the local meta but that can change fast. If everyones running melta vets in chimera's no one is going to take much armour. Then because no one takes armour, the mech players drop the Melta's and armour reappears. If you take tanks don't hap-hazardously throw them into a list. Set aside a reasonable budget for them to take a few. Tanks survive much longer when you take more than one because it forces your opponant to concentrate on one or split fire between both. This is how target saturation works.

As for the demolisher. Its an excellent tank and don't let others tell you otherwise. My local meta DO take demolishers in mech lists. No one wants to risk assaulting the convoy when they could have a democannon fall on their heads. My load out is a lascannon and plasma sponsons. Expensive but its the perfect transport/passenger killer. Pop a transport with your lascannon, pound the contents with the demo cannon, then clean up anyone who survived with plasma. Heavy bolter sponsons work too but not as well. Needless to say, this doesn't always work but when it does you get a warm feeling inside. The democannon itself can be used for any role, at 10s and an extra d6 to pick the highest, it is a high threat to armour, It'll instant kill many units and it'll drop heavy infantry like a dream.

Your thread fills me with rage. It's amazing how well peer pressure works

Run whatever the heck you want. It's your army, do what you want with it. If they don't like it, oh well. it's not their list, and they don't have to play against you if they think it's or something.

I think they hate LRBT's as they get pasted by them.

I usually use a standard LRBT in my guard lists, executioners against termie heavy armies and punishers against horde armies.

How could you say Valkyries suck? 100 pts for a 12/12/10 skimmer with multiple weapons and transport capacity. The people at your FLGS are giving you some bad advice.

The executioners a good tank but it's an expensive one. Nearly everyone that runs one report it a game winner although I have had less success with mine. It does the job and is pretty effective but the price tag means its a serious consideration on whether to take one or not. Generally its a nice addition.

I don't like valk's, I find the Vendetta so much more effective. The Vendetta performs the same role as the valk but the weapon load-out means its more of a threat. Both the lascannons and the hellstrike options are more effective than the valks verisons. Once the skimmers got its transport load into position, I want the skimmer that has the kit to deal some damage.

Nothing brings more amusement than squeezing an Executioner into a 500pt list.

The Basic LRBT is one of the best tanks IMHO, in my current 1750 I have two and a demolisher.

They are just so versatile, yeah they attract fire but who cares if they are shooting at them they are not shooting at something else.