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hi guys

i am in a 750 point weekly torny, here is my list, what do you think?

also heres a look at my blog for fun =P http://warhammerwithzail.blogspot.com/

Librarian 100pts
Assault Marine squad + Melta + Razorback with Twin linked Assault Cannon + Search light + Storm Bolter 176pts
Assault Marine squad + Melta + Razorback with Twin linked Assault Cannon + Search light + Storm Bolter 176pts
Predator with Lascannon side sponsons + search light 136pts
Vindicator + Siege shield + dozer blade + search light 161pts

First no one needs search lights. Second this is kind of boring to play and really dosnt take advantage of the ba codex.

cowpow16 wrote:First no one needs search lights. Second this is kind of boring to play and really dosnt take advantage of the ba codex.

So what would you suggest then?

Lib with jump pack
2 10 man assault squads with pf and 2 melta guns each
2 priests with packs. I dono thats what I would do or play a real game at 1000 points.

Drial87 wrote:

cowpow16 wrote:First no one needs search lights. Second this is kind of boring to play and really dosnt take advantage of the ba codex.

So what would you suggest then?

Just don't listen to cowpow and you will do fine. It's all about what you want to play!

If you are big in to the DoA type lists then, surprisingly, cowpow's list was spot on.

Librarian with a jump pack, unleash rage and shield of sanguinius = 125
10 man assault squad with 2 meltas and a power fist on the sergeant = 235
10 man assault squad with 2 meltas and a power fist on the sergeant = 235
2 sanguinary priests, each with a jump pack = 150

there is 745 points for you. Start out with everything in reserve for deep strike. Pair the priests with the assault squads, one each, and throw the librarian in one of them two. Deep strike them decently close to vehicles and capitalize on the 1d6 scatter to get the extra d6 bonus from the meltas for being within half range. Assault in, clean house. Don't forget to unleash rage!

I am not a that big on DoA lists i like the speed of the angels tanks, and there is one dude i really want to beat, so i need something competitive

This is bloody competitive you just cant run them around like a chicken with its head cut off and at this points level if you arnt having fun you should find a different game. Tanks come in at 1500 and 1750 personally I like Baal preds and vindicators but at this points level you have little tin plate armor that dosnt do much.

cowpow16 wrote:This is bloody competitive you just cant run them around like a chicken with its head cut off and at this points level if you arnt having fun you should find a different game. Tanks come in at 1500 and 1750 personally I like Baal preds and vindicators but at this points level you have little tin plate armor that dosnt do much.

I disagree. At 750:

Librarian w/ Blood Lance and Shield of Sanguinius = 100
5 man Assault Squad (No jump packs, 1x Flamer) w/ Dedicated Razorback that has TL Plasma and Lascannon = 160
5 man Assault Squad )No jump packs, 1x Flamer) w/ Dedicated Razorback that has TL Heavy Bolter = 125
Baal Predator w/ TL Assault Cannon + storm bolter = 125
Baal Predator w/ TL Assault Cannon + storm bolter = 125
Baal Predator w/ TL Assault Cannon = 115

Just something thrown together. I'm no expert on vehicle based lists but at 750 I think this would be a rough one to face. 5+ cover saves from the Lib using shield, 3 AV13 vehicles, and tons of firepower coupled with some good speed.

And cowpow... I have no words to describe my feelings for you. Stop being an ***, this guy can play however he wants to, competitive or not. That's not your call, nor are you in ANY place to tell people to go find a different game. Ugh, I'm ending this before I get myself in trouble.

wow thats a pretty nice/mean =P list, i like it, i might just give it a try. i will play a nicer list in the next turny,

in the one i am in currently i just need to own some face

cheers for the list Hytep

Hey im not trying to be mean its just that this list can be beaten just like any list not trying to be an @$$ im just saying with a bit of creativity you can write a list that isnt like very other list its just tiring seeing these little kids come in and someone asks about their army and they answer some guy on the internet told me this would win. When they dont win they get really sad and then they think the game sucks because some guy on the internet im just saying thats why people should play something fun.
Sorry if this got a little sappy but it is what it is and it is a good list would be very effective.

cowpow16 wrote:Hey im not trying to be mean its just that this list can be beaten just like any list not trying to be an @$$ im just saying with a bit of creativity you can write a list that isnt like very other list its just tiring seeing these little kids come in and someone asks about their army and they answer some guy on the internet told me this would win. When they dont win they get really sad and then they think the game sucks because some guy on the internet im just saying thats why people should play something fun.
Sorry if this got a little sappy but it is what it is and it is a good list would be very effective.

but it is not a list i wish to play, and as you have no idea who i am, you cant judge my age. please do stop being an ass

alright, well, i usually play high points games, even 1000 points would be my minimum before dropping down to 400 for combat patrol. You have to realize a few things first off. at these low points, the brokenness of GW codexs starts to become more prevalent. you can take any list you want, but some nob will just run some base troop list and pack it with battle cannons or monoliths or something silly like max lootas. Point is, you have to play something fun, personally, i don't care if I lose, if i'm running a completely greasy death-company army parked in 2 storm-ravens and asoroth the grim, just to screw with objective games i'm pretty pleased with myself.

Yeah sorry to say this cowpow but your being a...... TROLL

Hytep wrote:Librarian w/ Blood Lance and Shield of Sanguinius = 100
5 man Assault Squad (No jump packs, 1x Flamer) w/ Dedicated Razorback that has TL Plasma and Lascannon = 160
5 man Assault Squad )No jump packs, 1x Flamer) w/ Dedicated Razorback that has TL Heavy Bolter = 125
Baal Predator w/ TL Assault Cannon + storm bolter = 125
Baal Predator w/ TL Assault Cannon + storm bolter = 125
Baal Predator w/ TL Assault Cannon = 115

Just something thrown together. I'm no expert on vehicle based lists but at 750 I think this would be a rough one to face. 5+ cover saves from the Lib using shield, 3 AV13 vehicles, and tons of firepower coupled with some good speed.

I like this, but I think the following is a little better, mostly because I don't like Heavy Bolter Razorbacks.

HQ: Librarian w/ Shield of Sanguinius and Blood Lance or Unleash Rage 100
TR: 5 man Assault Squad w/ Meltagun, Power Fist and Las/Plas Razorback 190
TR: 5 man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Las/Plas Razorback 160
HS: Predator w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons 100
HS: Predator w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons 100
HS: Predator w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons 100
Total: 750

I think this is better because it has more range and the anti-tank is more spread out. Plus you have some reasonable ability to take on AV14, excepting Monoliths and Blessed Hull Land Raiders.

By the way, cowpow, you would probably get more respect if you worked on your grammar a little bit. The following could help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-on_sentence

I apologize if English is not your first language.

MrEconomics that list looks good, but what do you think about putting Assualt Cannons on the Razors instead of the Las/Plasma? 4 strength 6 rending shots with rerolls can be pretty effective at poping armor and infantry?

Drial87 wrote:MrEconomics that list looks good, but what do you think about putting Assualt Cannons on the Razors instead of the Las/Plasma? 4 strength 6 rending shots with rerolls can be pretty effective at poping armor and infantry?

I haven't tried them myself, but I've thought about it. The issue I have is that within 12", the Las/Plas RB has only 1 less shot, and each of the shots are of higher quality. The other issue is that I like regular Predators more than Baals at low points, so the Las/Plas loadout works better due to the longer range.

I will point out that the cost is the same, so I plan to experiment at some point in the future. I may be totally wrong about this.

You mean within 6" the Las/Plas has only 1 less shot? At 12" you can only shoot one of those guns. I still agree with MrEconomics though, only because you want the Lascannons to more reliably kill the Land Raider that some TFG is going to bring.

i believe math hammer wise the rending shot have a better chance at penatrating AV 14. that said the plasma will do mean things to marines. (balls! i am undecided)

To be clear, I meant that when shooting at stuff that is no more than 12" away, the Las/Plas has only 1 less shot. Obviously one clear advantage of the AC Razorback is that it can move 12". You know, I definitely need to playtest this. One other drawback is that the Razorback box doesn't come with the stuff to make an Assault Cannon, which are harder to get ahold of than plasma guns.

UPDATE

I've done some number crunching:

Probability of doing something to AV10/11/12/13/14, target not obscured, within 12"

TL-AC: .905/.755/.473/.473/.340
Las/Plas: .944/.863/.725/.516/.222
TL-LC: .889/.741/.593/.444/.296

Probability of doing something to AV10/11/12/13/14, target not obscured, within 12-24"

TL-AC: .905/.755/.473/.473/.340
Las/Plas: .864/.753/.609/.432/.222
TL-LC: .889/.741/.593/.444/.296

Probability of destroying AV10/11/12/13/14, target not obscured, within 12"

TL-AC: .340/.183/.183/.125/.064
Las/Plas: .409/.308/.197/.074/.037
TL-LC: .247/.198/.148/.099/.049

Probability of destroying AV10/11/12/13/14, target not obscured, within 12"-24"

TL-AC: .340/.183/.183/.125/.064
Las/Plas: .306/.232/.155/.074/.037
TL-LC: .247/.198/.148/.099/.049

Against obscured targets, the Assault Cannon will be penalized the least as some of the overkill becomes useful, while the TL-LC's rates will be cut exactly in half.

I'm taking a few things away from this. First, if you tend to move 12" a lot, the TL-AC variant is probably best. When it can fire, it is better than the TL-LC in most scenarios, which is clearly better than the Las/Plas in the 12-24" range when only 1 weapon can be fired. I don't know how relevant the within 12" numbers are as that's getting pretty dangerous. The TL-AC version is also superior against AV 13 and 14, which we knew before.

On the other hand, the Las/Plas is the winner when the enemy is close, has AV 12 or less and you move 6" or less. I also think it is clearly better against infantry in those situations. Overall, I think both the TL-AC and Las/Plas versions have their merits. The TL-LC version is weaker, unless you are able to keep beyond 24" consistently.

Ultimately, I think I may end up switching to TL-AC when I go up to 1500 points and add 3 Baal Predators to my army, which will also have three Dakka Predators. I could also see a mix being useful; take 1-2 Las/Plas versions for squads that plan to hang back and hold objectives, take TL-ACs on the rest that will move up with the Baals.

Drial, I don't know if this has been helpful, but thanks for making me think about it. I guess the only real solution is to playtest and see which one works for you. Either way, I think your list will be competitive. I guess one final thing to consider if whether you'll be facing Necrons much. The TL-AC loses something against them because it can't rend a Monolith, and the Las/Plas version is better shooting at MEQs as well. We have several Necron players at my local GW and I did really well in my one game against them.

nice stats, Yea i agree the TLAC are a bitch to come by, after some ebay scouting i managed to get my hands on enough to have 4 fully made TLlAC on my razorbacks.

i will take some pics tonight so you can see how they came up.

play wise i have had very good results with them, they hold up against mech and are very good anti infantry. 3s with rerolls and 2s to wound vs marines are good just for the wound genaration, not including the rending you shots you may get.

you should check out my blog at sometime, i am posting my progress with my BA.