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I'm done with magic. I can't cast anything successfully, I can't dispel with equal strength wizards, my miscasts are devastating and the puppet never does too well. I've had reasonable success with this list at the 2500 level and love having all warriors marching across the field.

Lords
Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh, diabolic splendor, barded steed, chaos runesword, chaos runeshield 374
Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh, shield, armor of damnation, father of blades 310

Heroes
Exalted hero, mark of tzeentch, bsb, shield, bronze armor of zhrakk, necrotic phylactery 175
Exalted hero, mark of slaanesh, enchanted shield, glaive of putrefication 155

Core
18 warriors, mark of slaanesh, halberds, shields, full cmd 346
18 warriors, mark of slaanesh, addt'l hw, shields, full cmd 346
18 warriors, mark of tzeentch, greatweapons, shields, full cmd 374

Special
17 chosen, mark of tzeentch, halberds, shields, full cmd, favor of the gods, terror std 445
7 chaos knights, mark of slaanesh, full cmd. 340

Rare
Chaos warshrine 130
Total: 2995


The glaive hero is mostly designed to try smacking some of the spammed monsters I see out there. A hpa won't be nearly as bad if he's s and t 2!

One change I'm considering is replacing the greatweapon warriors with a unit of 8 chaos trolls, perhaps including throgg somehow too. Historically though, while great in friendly games, the unit always gets pit of shades'd and destroyed.

Pray none of your opponents ever take Lore of Metal...

Actually, so far, I've never seen lore of metal played. Beasts, life, shadow, fire, heavens, and race-specific, but no metal. Is it common in the GT tourney scene?

Not one of the best lore, but shows up occasionally in armies that lacks ways to deal with high armor.
Lore of Metal aside, magic heavy builds give you trouble especially and Teclis, Slaan and many magic heavy builds are common in tournements.

On the list, I'd say you be better off with 2 bigger blocks of WoC for core than 3 smaller blocks. Your choice of Marks and weapon configuration is kind of odd too. Generally you want MoT dudes to have shields for 5+ parry.
I've never seen MoS this edition, probably for good reasons since fear isnt a big issue anymore, MoK would make your Halberd or AHW warriors do more damage.

Warshrine really wants a MoT, 3+ ward is awesome.

For your characters, I'd let someone else comment on the wargear, but I think you want those expensive guys to have some sort of ward save.

MoT for the gw is mostly just to save a couple warriors once in a while so they can live to strike back. Historically the unit loses 1/3 of its number before return attacks murder the enemy. Problem is then that it only lasts through about one enemy unit and then doesn't have the "oomph" to deal with a second. I'm hoping with playtesting the MoT can save enough that it can go through two. If it doesn't work well, I may put in the trolls. Pit of shades is so scary though....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why two big instead of three smaller?

why not the frenzy banner on the chosen? Terror doesn't do much in this addition IMO, i also question the GW on the MoT warriors, i would swap for sword and board and make them your anvil that everything else smashes off of

love the lots of warriors, do the same thing myself

cheers
papasmurf

Yeah if you go against a kairos (who according to the FAQ picks his spell before each game) your in for some serious pain.

Personally in any game over 2200ish points, I refuse not to take any magic defense, be it a level 4 or a level 2 with +1 to dispell.

Any of the SC casters are going to cause some issues

PapaSmurf wrote:why not the frenzy banner on the chosen? Terror doesn't do much in this addition IMO, i also question the GW on the MoT warriors, i would swap for sword and board and make them your anvil that everything else smashes off of

love the lots of warriors, do the same thing myself

cheers
papasmurf

He wants to play the Chosenstar with a 3+ ward which can be achieved by having a Warshrine, Favor and the terror banner very easily. EotG shenanigans ftw!

The problem with Warriors of Chaos without Magic is obviously that you are completely relying on your Combat Phase. Flying Wizards (Kairos Fateweaver, Pegasus Sorceress, Tzeentch Wizards on Discs) will give you hell, as you have no way to get them into Combat. Also, I am not sure if you have enough Monster killers / tarpitters to make sure that armies with 3 HPA's / 3 War Hydra's etc. won't rip through your Warriors.

Also that chosen block needs to be a lot bigger... The first skaven opponent you go against (that knows how to build a list) will power scroll 13th them off the table.

My hard boyz list is a fatewaver build, knowing that you have no defense, and I have 3 wizards, I can risk a few low spells with the horrors and the herald to leave FW with a lot of power dice thanks to boon.

To be bluntly honest and to summarize what some others have said....This list would be a baby seal at any 'Ard Boyz event with serious contenders.

Must...have...magic....

Nifty list, but I would recommend switching the GWs on the Warriors to Halberds and using the points saved to give them a flaming banner. Likewise with additional hand weapons; halberds a generally better since the AHW do you no good on the second ranks.

I also note you have zero (?) items from the BRB. For instance, it is a bit better to get a shield and the dragon helm on the fellow with enchanted shield. In some cases it is better to put a ward save amulet on characters too instead of the WoC book armor.

I hate to say it, having built my armor for MoS too, but it probably isn't worth it on warriors. It isn't a lot of points, but MoK will go a lot farther if you can squeeze the points for that.

Also, for characters, getting ASF on the lords is a really good idea. Being able to reroll fluffed to-hit rolls is really valuable, especially since you are already Str5. If you want to get cheeky, a Lord with Rending Sword and Helm of Many Eyes gets you rerolls on hits and wounds with ASF, making him super consistent, and stupidity isn't an issue due to high Ld and presumably a BSB nearby.

Now, I don't know if no magic will work, but it should be kind of fun. It is a hard list, and if you make your characters more survivable with ward saves your opponent might have a hard time claiming points.

Even with high leadership, one fluffed roll on your stupid general could cost you the game (it has cost me the game before).

Does Teclis get to pick his lore before each game as well?

d-usa wrote:Does Teclis get to pick his lore before each game as well?

Technically no, there is a spot in the BRB that says you MUST select you lore before hand, and that this overrides anything army books say.

ShivanAngel wrote:

d-usa wrote:Does Teclis get to pick his lore before each game as well?

Technically no, there is a spot in the BRB that says you MUST select you lore before hand, and that this overrides anything army books say.

Army book trumps BRB and it specifically states that he can. That was also the call at all three round of 'Ard Boyz last year (not that I really needed the option I went life all 9 rounds).

ShivanAngel wrote:Even with high leadership, one fluffed roll on your stupid general could cost you the game (it has cost me the game before).

Yea, that can be true, but remember it is Ld9 with a BSB reroll most likely. Also you don't roll stupid in combat, so by turn 2-3 you are no longer making the rolls as often.

In fact, given the build, if I were going to roll that many lords and exalteds, dropping one in with the BSB would be a really good way to keep him out of unfavorable challenges. Let the lord stand up to any challenge instead of the BSB needing to respond.
I can see being worried about stupidity if he is your only lord, but with two running around with additional heroes, eh, probably alright

I may as well throw in the towel if the only defense against magic is magic. Level 2, level 4, doesn't matter I always end up on the back foot. Turn 1 fail to cast most spells, turn 1 enemy fail to dispel his, turn 2 mine blow power dice dispelling rip, turn 2 enemy has his way with me, continue like that.

I used to run khorne on occasion. I liked how we can restrain charges now. But a few games against a regular tournament-goer summoning zombies to force me to overrun when I murdered them and that's it. And back then I had magic for dispel - it wasn't enough, ever.

I'll look into the lords. The runesword lord historically sucks it up by only hitting twice so I would like some rerolls. I may have to put the helm on the glaive of putrefaction guy though, he's my trump card vs hpa and as I found out last night, a keeper of secrets going first ruins his day.

What do you guys think about a unit of trolls with throgg? Just food for pit of shades or would they be a good trade for, say, the greatweapon warriors?

gardeth wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:

d-usa wrote:Does Teclis get to pick his lore before each game as well?

Technically no, there is a spot in the BRB that says you MUST select you lore before hand, and that this overrides anything army books say.

Army book trumps BRB and it specifically states that he can. That was also the call at all three round of 'Ard Boyz last year (not that I really needed the option I went life all 9 rounds).

I call shenanigans. Just write 'LIFE" on your list and keep everything above boards

Spellbound wrote:
Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh, diabolic splendor, barded steed, chaos runesword, chaos runeshield 374
Chaos lord, mark of slaanesh, shield, armor of damnation, father of blades 310

So the main reason I retired my combat lord in 7th was because he had no way to get rerolled hits, so his towering stats (and points cost) were for naught. Now, with sword of swift slaying and the helm of eyes you can get two lords with rerolls, and I myself would make that happen here. Between potions of strength and magical weapons you should be able to have all sorts of groovy combos (including rending sword + helm for a reroll extravaganza ... of S5 ).

On the whole concept, a lot of me agrees. Magic is incredibly frustrating, and I find myself with two (rather pessimistic) options:

1) Take a wizard able to get One Spell That Matters (and with some form of ward or ability to be out of friendly units), slam max dice into this 1 spell and hope for IF. Chaos have my preferred form of this - a level 1 DP or disc sorcerer with third eye. The defensive strategy that accompanies this is unfortunate: assuming a non-slann level 4, without massive power dice generation (i.e. banner of sorcery HE), they're only going to cast about 3 spells. One spell isn't going to matter much (a RiP perhaps), one is going to suck but not swing the game in one shot, and the last is That Spell That Matters. So I soak the first and shrug, suffer the second and lament, then slam all dice into the final spell. Not great but ah well.

2) Take no magic, invest in more maniacs.

I have yet to run Option 2, though I have a 2k warrior list not unlike yours (triple warrior core, fighty lord) that I'd like to try. I don't think it's suicide, but I do feel like fantasy is more fun when you have something to do in the magic phase (even if it's a sort of masturbatory show of pretending you have a phase) - having said that, the number of times I say to my opponent "Wow, 300+ points in magic doesn't do much, does it?" makes me wonder if I should embrace the madness and invest in things that at least do what they were paid to do with much more regularity.

So: good luck to you, I say give it a shot. Magic is fickle and dumb, putting chaos lord to face is less so (especially with some rerolls )

Spellbound wrote:What do you guys think about a unit of trolls with throgg? Just food for pit of shades or would they be a good trade for, say, the greatweapon warriors?

Funny thing, the warrior list I'm running at a local tournament (in less than 2 hours!) used to have 8 trolls but now has 18 great weapon warriors ... It was the pit / sun vulnerability, as well as the fire vulnerability, that got me to switch. Excited to see how they fair, though I'm probably gonna get them killed

- Salvage

Honestly, if you're going to go with Slaanesh, you shouldn't pass up on the fast cav steed.

Chaos Lord and 2 exaulted, all on steeds of slaanesh, leading 18 marauder fast cav (with light armor and flails).
At 3K, you can double down on that combo.

You're looking at 3 poisoned attack, 6 S5 attacks (2nd rank), and 13 S5 + gear, attacks (2 exaulted and lord). You'll be hitting the enemy after his first turn (12" pregame move, and 8" + best 2 of 3D6 charge).

-Matt

Try running an exalted for taking out war machines, I have been thinking about doing this for awhile and would love to see if it works.

Exalted-- mark of slaanesh, steed of slaanesh, 5+ ward, dragon helm, shield, halberd-- 189 (I think)

in theory he can zip up a flank and try to tackle war machine crews or small shooting units in the flank. Could even drop the 5+w if you have confidence in his 2+ armor, making him a steal for 159

Just a thought

PS I admire this attempt, I want to run all khorne but haven't found my groove yet.

Pervertdhermit wrote:Try running an exalted for taking out war machines, I have been thinking about doing this for awhile and would love to see if it works.

Exalted-- mark of slaanesh, steed of slaanesh, 5+ ward, dragon helm, shield, halberd-- 189 (I think)

in theory he can zip up a flank and try to tackle war machine crews or small shooting units in the flank. Could even drop the 5+w if you have confidence in his 2+ armor, making him a steal for 159

Just a thought

That's a 1+ save vs shooting (4+ armor,shield, helm, mount), and a 2+ in melee, cause he can't use the shield.
I'm thinking vanguard slaanesh exaulted is awesome sauce.

-Matt

You could take the Charmed Shield rather than the Dragon Helm, which gives him a good chance of dodging any cannonballs people shoot at him (or at least making them use 2 units to kill him). The Dragonhelm doesn't seem like it would be that helpful anyway, 2+ ward vs Fire is of limited use when hunting war machines (unless you know you are facing Dwarves and then its a better buy than the Charmed Shield).

Only reason I say no to the charmed shield is because the d.helm allows the use of a mundane shield as well, so a 1+ vs shooting like matt said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a steed of slaanesh use a Calvary base? Meaning he'd get LoS when with/near knights or mcav?

Either way, if you can not hide him or keep him safe the charmed shield is always an option, just remember though that that exalted should be across the table turn 2 at the latest!

I'm done with magic. I can't cast anything successfully, I can't dispel with equal strength wizards, my miscasts are devastating and the puppet never does too well. I've had reasonable success with this list at the 2500 level and love having all warriors marching across the field.

Lords
Chaos lord, mark of tzeentch, talisman of preservation, shield, bronze armour of zhrakk, sword of swift slaying, the other trickster's shard 330

Heroes
Exalted hero, mark of tzeentch, bsb, shield, crimson armour of dargan, necrotic phylactery 200
Throgg the troll king 175

Core
18 warriors, mark of slaanesh, halberds, shields, full cmd 346
18 warriors, mark of slaanesh, addt'l hw, shields, full cmd, flaming banner 356
18 warriors, mark of tzeentch, greatweapons, shields, full cmd, gleaming standard 379
7 chaos trolls 315

Special
17 chosen, mark of tzeentch, halberds, shields, full cmd, favor of the gods, terror std 445
7 chaos knights, mark of slaanesh, std, musician 320

Rare
Chaos warshrine 130
Total: 2996


So this is my revision. Went to one lord that's harder to kill and should be nice and deadly. I played a leadership bomb slaanesh army and didn't do too badly, but saw the potential for my general to be nerfed to leadership 2, and was reminded my army HAS to use the general's leadership....so I gave him the bronze armour so he doesn't hurt me so badly! With itp all over the place I only have to worry about break tests. My bsb is still pretty survivable, and 8 with a reroll should be fine.

What I like about this army is how many incredibly deadly units there are. 3 warrior blocks, knights, chosen, trolls. The lord should really murder anything that comes to him, except rerolling armor save characters. Three units are capable of either holding their own or outright murdering things like hpa, so as long as I can pass ld 8 checks I should be fine. A keeper of secrets will still murder all but the trolls and chosen though.

You didn't pay for MoT on the Chosen.

Wow thanks! Don't know how I missed that. Alright, then I suppose I'll drop the Gleaming standard and change the greatweapon warriors' mark from tzeentch to slaanesh, to pay for the chosen.

Alternatively, I suppose I could drop the musician, though yesterday I had three rounds of combat in a row that ended in draws with them, so....

Yeah. No gleaming standard, Slaanesh instead of Tzeentch on GW warriors, and add the mark to the chosen. I hate that damn 1 point that's keeping me from maxing out my list!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boss Salvage wrote:

On the whole concept, a lot of me agrees. Magic is incredibly frustrating, and I find myself with two (rather pessimistic) options:

1) Take a wizard able to get One Spell That Matters (and with some form of ward or ability to be out of friendly units), slam max dice into this 1 spell and hope for IF. Chaos have my preferred form of this - a level 1 DP or disc sorcerer with third eye. The defensive strategy that accompanies this is unfortunate: assuming a non-slann level 4, without massive power dice generation (i.e. banner of sorcery HE), they're only going to cast about 3 spells. One spell isn't going to matter much (a RiP perhaps), one is going to suck but not swing the game in one shot, and the last is That Spell That Matters. So I soak the first and shrug, suffer the second and lament, then slam all dice into the final spell. Not great but ah well.

2) Take no magic, invest in more maniacs.

I have yet to run Option 2, though I have a 2k warrior list not unlike yours (triple warrior core, fighty lord) that I'd like to try. I don't think it's suicide, but I do feel like fantasy is more fun when you have something to do in the magic phase (even if it's a sort of masturbatory show of pretending you have a phase) - having said that, the number of times I say to my opponent "Wow, 300+ points in magic doesn't do much, does it?" makes me wonder if I should embrace the madness and invest in things that at least do what they were paid to do with much more regularity.

This sums it up pretty much. I always had that spell that matters, and either I fail to cast it if I only use three or four dice [even with a level 4], or I'll throw six dice and they'll all be between 1 and 3, so I succeed in casting it barely, and then my opponent throws three dice and dispels it. After about the 10th game of me blowing ALL my power dice, my opponent only using 2/3 of his dispel dice, and accomplishing nothing during my magic phase is about when I game up on it all.

So yeah, like you I keep my dispel dice to try to dispel that ONE spell they really want to get. Or, if facing lizardmen, I just dispel Throne of Vines. If I can prevent that going off, their other spells aren't as good and they usually miscast themselves into oblivion.

But generally, my troops are just plain resilient enough to soak such things and not care. I know for a fact Dwellers Below and Dreaded 13th will be cast on my chosen. So my army says "FORWARD!!!" and as the chosen die, I use that window of opportunity to get the rest of my army in there. Truth be told the chosen aren't that expensive as far as deathstars go, and while I usually put my BSB in there, I don't put my lord in it, so I don't have ALL my eggs in one expensive basket.

Now, I wanted to avoid using marauders of any sort, but I'm wondering if instead of the knights I should invest in two or three marauder horsemen units. I often get my flanks harried - fiends, flamers, skinks, gutter runners, etc. My usual strategy? Run forward and ignore them. They can be annoying though, causing my troops that flee to flee extra far, or declaring charges on fleeing troops to wipe them out. I like my knights, they're key often to taking out things like horde daemonettes or bloodletters [charging alongside my warriors that have rank bonuses] but do you think the added value of taking out harrassment units is worth it?

gardeth wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:

d-usa wrote:Does Teclis get to pick his lore before each game as well?

Technically no, there is a spot in the BRB that says you MUST select you lore before hand, and that this overrides anything army books say.

Army book trumps BRB and it specifically states that he can. That was also the call at all three round of 'Ard Boyz last year (not that I really needed the option I went life all 9 rounds).

Read the army building section in the brb again.

Theres a little spot that says for army building only BRB trumps the individual army books. So yeah it has to be on the list.