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I am a new player and just built a Cryx army. I played at my local store in a war machine league and today we had a steamroller tournament to wrap up the league.
I was very disappointed in the steamroller tourney, in fact my love of war machine turned into resentment and a ripped off feeling. The steamroller scenarios are to
coin a phase "bs baffles brains" This is not war machine these scenarios have nothing to do with strategy as relates to the core principle of this game
"if you want to play capture the flag i will do it at recess after math class". It would simpler and less time consuming to just hold a raffle.
i thought war machine was like chess....kill the king...KILL THE CASTER . i played 5 maybe 6 weeks of deploy based on initiative, allow for rules, tier list bonus, advance deployments.
then set about the task of eliminating the caster allowing for terrain, opponents list selection and maneuvering.
This steamroller rules concept is just a blatant time management tool for tournament play it detracts from the essence of core concept
I agree that tournaments require a standard but it should be one scenario accepted worldwide and the core concept is "kill the caster" not these dick around scenarios.
where gakky players can win because of lucky circumstances generated by an artificial evaluation process.
There should be one standard scenario for tournament play it should focus on caster elimination primarily, after that strength of remaining assets with tie breakers that are logical
to those to outcomes......the only scenario that vaguely resembled something intelligent was the kill box (the kill box was to small)
NFL,CFL,NHL,NBA,MLB what do all these leagues have in common..... a precise group of rules for play. ever single player is given a chance to succeed and shine based on his
level of talent. everybody plays a core scenario and is evaluated accordingly.
I am now contemplating a solution
are there leagues that ignore scenario play?
No one will ever know who the greatest player is? not with this confusing inaccurate evaluation method
someone should start a tournament circuit that promotes the games core concept.
I think privateers imagination and genius have created a great game, I think steamroller is a terrible way to showcase such a grand product
for the record had I seen a tournament before getting into war machine I would never have bought my army.
now I know the secret see tournament first buy army later.
Hello War hammer

Huh. I think that's the first time that I've heard that Steamroller focuses too much on scenarios over caster kill. Ten points for uniqueness.

Hi, welcome to Dakka. You might want to try some more organization for your posts, as it is pretty hard to read.

Welcome to Warhammer, too.

Can you identify a scenario in which Caster Kill is not a victory condition? Regardless of the control points or other what-have-you, can you name one time where killing the other warcaster or warlock DOESNT win you the game?

During league play there was one scenario and that was based on warbeasts and 'jacks remaining autonomous but that was one and only in a league.

Exactly what SR scenario caused you so much unhappiness?

The scenarios are actually rather important to the game. They force you to be aggressive and not just sit back and turtle up, otherwise Cygnar would rule the game.

Even then, the good majority of scenario games end in caster kill. It often tends to be more about making sure your opponent can't score points than scoring them yourself.

i think scenario play has merit. there should be one official scenario by which all players are measured.

then we can have a ladder system, a rating some kind of skill measurement.

official or unofficial scenarios detract from purity of game play, and are not resource logical.

I played a scenario in a tournament they called dice down i had damaged his caster, and I had at least 24 points of

resources. He had about 12 points. I was declared the loser by some tie breaker rule that had no bearing on

strategic or tactical decision making based on the goals set out by the rules of war machine.

my opponents statement was "lucky me" if its going to come down to something other than skill

then lets not waste time on scenario based tournaments, lets hold raffles as a method of prize

distribution.

anyway i had my say just wondered if anyone had similar feelings

How about describing what the condition is rather than just complaining about it?

Rule 1: Thou Shalt Not Whine
Rule 4: Win Graciously, Lose Valiantly.

I understand that the page 5 rules aren't the be all, end all when it comes to rules for this game, but they're a good starting point. If someone got a lucky break and managed to beat you, give him a break. Admit that you were beaten, and move on. Or at least provide an explanation of what is going on so people can see what might have happened, and where things went wrong.

If it was a tie breaker then it must have mattered. The fact that you decided to neglect it in favor of other win conditions is no ones fault but your own.

It's hard to be sympathetic when you won't talk specifics.

Huh. I find the 2011 Steamroller rules to not be very hard. A bit more complex than normal 'caster kill but not as hard as your pre-Algebra class.

Are you sure you weren't playing some other game and you happened to misread the title of the game? Judging by your posts, it is quite possible.

Warmachine has scenarios?

Every single scenario in the Steamroller format has (AFAIK) assassination as an ultimate objective.

You play Cryx, there's very little reason why you should care about what any of the scenarios are, kill the caster = win.

Actually, it does come into it. WM/H is straight win loss. So it often happens that on raw scores, players are tied at the end of the tournament.
The way that is sorted out is by "weighting" the victories. AFAIK, scenario is worth the most, then caster kill, then victory points. So it is desirable to go for the scenario win over caster kill, or at least, it is a decision that you need to think about.

In standard format the type of win has no weight, but it's beneffitial to pick up some control points for controling the scenario objectives along the way. It's wins, then strength of schedule, then control points, then army points killed IIRC.

I actually find their scenarios more thought provoking that caster kill. The first reason is even if your getting whipped you can still come back and win via scenario (I had a guy to 4 models and he came back and won due to scenario). The other reason is that it forces certain casters to be more aggressive and not turtle up.

Its a tough break (losing via tiebreaker) but it happens. You'll get over it and hopefully adapt before the next tournament.

I apologize for my lack of detail, I am not whining and I am trying to feel out the reaction to steamroller.

I am competitive and like any competitor in any game or sport i look at how excellence is evaluated

How many of you feel steamroller scenarios are a fair and consistent measuring stick of war machine / Hordes talent.

I joined this board because i believe we all live in small communities, I wanted a worldwide opinion about my situation.

I want to know if a league popped up tomorrow, banned multi scenario play, invented one scenario that took into account

faction balance and created a caster kill / asset based evaluation which is the core objective, would you play in it?

could this idea take over? and if it did could we then say john Hancock of any town is the most accomplished player

in the game.



i feel war machine / hordes is an act of creative genius, does scenario play take away from that?

It is my opinion that a vast majority scenarios ruin the game and allow inferior players to win games against superior players.

I dont ever think we will as war machine hobbyists be able to identify a player we can all refer to

as the best, until there is a consistent measuring stick.

I am appealing to player who strives for recognition within his chosen hobby not a player like my

brother who plays for recreation and escape.

what does everyone think?

If you can create a single one scenario that perfectly balanced all factions and their casters, then yes, I'd play it. I'm highly doubtful any one scenario like that could exist though. With the number of factions and huge number of casters, some work in different scenarios better than others.

An inferior player shouldn't win vs. a superior player. The superior
player shouldn't ignore the scenario.

Warmachine scenarios are all about controlling the flow of battle. Assassination
is one goal. Control points is another one you have to consider. And the next
thing you have to consider is survivor points.

Well, for starters:

Welcome to Steamroller! Steamroller gives players options to win the game beyond waracster/warlock assassination, as it prevents players from simply bringing the best assassination warcasters/warlocks and winning the game.

You play Cryx - your faction strength is assassination. Steamroller's probably not going to make you happy, as you now need to worry about managing board objectives in addition to killing the opposing warcaster. That said, Cryx is still a very strong competitor - hang in there!

As for "evaluating who's the best", just no. Rankings HQ is attempting to do this via tournament results, but there is no absolute system to figure out the best player in the world. Frankly, its a wargame: who cares?

If you're looking to up your game from a competitve prospective, why don't you post a recap of what happened in the game and ask for advise?

- McNs

Steam Rollers are the most straight forward of competitive play.
1. The ulimate goal is to win, you have to play aggressive. Turtling doesn't work. The primary goal is to kill the caster.

2. Scenarios only really affect your deployment. You are given 2ndary objectives, options for control points for having a unit within 4 inches of an objective. Your 2ndary objectives come into play IF a caster doesn't die, and to encourage people to move.

3. My recommendation when you see the scenario. Read it thoroughly. Ask yourself what do I have to do to deny control points. Often its as simple as, "contest an objective." Because to score control points often you have to contest while controling.

4. Lastly, WMHD offers you: no paint requirement. no comp scoring. no sportsmanship. Simple win/loss. Its that simple. You play cryx. Usually your caster can hang out by a objective in the rear of the deployment anyway, while your arcing spells. Cryx are one of the best scenario armies, if your goal is to play assassination.

5. This isn't warhammer. Games take about 30 mins. Play hard, fast, and violent. Turtle and lose. Killbox, makes you stay in "combat mode." Its not too small. It only makes you have to have your caster inside the box to continue the game going. Timed turns ensures both players get about the same about of time to try to play, that way one person cannot just BS their way to a win.

First thing to remember about a dice game is that they can go cold. I'm not saying that it happened in your case, but a superior player with bad dice will lose to a "lesser" player with average dice.

I would also say that there is no way that every caster will be "balanced".

Steamroller and scenarios in my experience make you rethink how you play the game, it keeps it from getting stale.

Your input is appreciated. It seems that scenario play has its believers and everyone puts up a good argument.
I am swayed that this is the only viable tournament process. I dislike it, but many of you have very sound arguments
and even in just brief posts i can see a wealth of knowledge centered around game theory.




i

On one note: one of my friends who is very GT seasoned with WFB HATES steam rollers. He feels they compress his turn to much, and that he needs time to plan, and establish what he wants to do. He questions why each player needs the same amount of time, and dislikes the game is not preset to go "x" minutes or "x" rounds. He is not the first person to argue this point of view.

Sometimes when coming over from other games systems, 40k, WFB, Flames of War, etc, players struggle with the smash mouth style of play that Warmachine / Hordes is. When both players know the game, its a really fast played game.

A few weeks ago, I was on the losing end of a fast paced attrition game that was 35 points and went 7 rounds without either playing using their time extension, and with time limits being 7 min turns. Many players feel great stress playing at such a massive speed. I had a warjack heavy Khador force, my opponent infantry heavy Menoth. Even on the losing end, it was one of my most enjoyable games I've ever played. Almost zero rules questions, more questinos to clarify unfamiliar units, lots of dice rolling, lots of attrition and damage. My opponent average 5-6 min turns with over 30 infantry, but also i've played since early Mk1. To me that's fun, to others they find it hell.

It's too bad. I'd say maybe he should try the "deathclock" variant
of Warmachine where they use chess timers, but once you have
a time deficit there you're on your heels. I think that might stress
your friend out more.