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I recently found a nice Chaplain model I had painted for my pre heresy Death Guard and wonderd if it was possible for a Death Guard company to have a chaplain in it. Strangely BoLS says only the Word Bearers had Chaplains while Lexicanum stated, that all Legions had Chaplains shortly before the war. So which one of the two statements is correct?

All the chaplains stayed faithful to the Emporer apart from those from the word bearers, who took to chaos. The other chaplains in other legions were murdered and their crozius destroyed or defiled, but the word bearer's chaplains altered them to symbols of chaos, so only the word bearers still have what used to be 'chaplains'

winnertakesall, I believe he is talking about Pre-Heresy Death Guard, not those found in the 40k universe. If that's the case, then I think the latter statement is correct Necanor.

In A Thousand Sons, the Chaplain Edict was intended by the Emperor to prevent the use of Librarians within the Legions, based on those already used by the Word Bearers, after the rulings of the Council of Nikaea. Of course, the irony of that decision, was that the WB had already started on the path to Chaos at that point.

Mortarion was one of the more stringent opponents of the use of Librarians (again from A Thousand Sons), so I would put money on the Death Guard having Chaplains, at least before the Heresy broke out.

There is also the 'rule of cool' or 'innocent until proven guilty' for Pre-Heresy options. Unless there is a specific bit of material saying something doesn't exist, then it probably did, and you should feel free to use it in your army. Purists might disagree, but that has always been one of the beauties of PH for me, a lot more is left open for your imagination

Ah, I thought he was talking about a normal death guard army, silly me didn't read it all. Yeah, as above really.

Is there a chaplain in pre-heresy Death Guard fluff?

The Chaplains may be as common as Librarians, so some Legions could deny the use of those.

There is the chaplain-edict in the "vision of heresy..." series, and lexi may have based its interpretation on this.

Volume II : visions of Darkness.

The Chaplain Edict:

After the council of nikaea, the Space Marine Legions had been instructed to abolish their librarius divisions.
.......
The first Lord of Terra, Malcador the sigilite, leader of the council of Terra, was not satisfied that all of the Legions would follow the Emperors
edict. He knew that many of the Primarchs placed great value on their Librarians and the power they couls unleash on the battlefield.
......
He resolved to find a way to ensure these Legions obeyed the Emperor and observed the psykers ban.His thougths turned to Lorgar and the Word Bearers Legion.
Whilst the Emperor worked his secret labours in the Palace vaults,Malcador the sigilite issued a new edict through the council of Terra in the name of the Emperor. This was the order of Observance, more commonly known as the Chaplain edict, and its inspiration was the Word Bearers Legion.
......
On becoming Primarch,Lorgarhad introduced officer-clerics to his Legion. These warrior-priests were named Chaplains, and their role was to minister to the needs of the Space Marines and ensure that their faith in the Emperor was strong.
Inspired by this,Malcador ordered the other Space Marine Primarchs to appoint chaplains who would ensure the spiritual wellbeing of their Legion, and enforce the psyker ban.These officers were to be picked from those Space Marines who were the most steadfast in their dutys, and who had demonstrated the strongest loyality to their Primarch and to the Emperor.
Most of the primarchs loyally followed the edict and began to appoint officers to the rank and duties of chaplain. Some did not.

Seems possible to field chaplains for most Legions.
Death Guard had Mortarion and his concerns about psykers, so appointing chaplains to enforce a ban of non-existant librarians?
Plus they fell upon their lack of faith......
So maybe unlikely to have chaplains there. From a themed point of view, death guard may use skull shaped helmets to represent their
addiction with death without limiting them to pieces of chaplain wargear. IMO the model is usable, but maybe not a chaplain.

The final line there from your reference, thanks for posting that 1hadhq

Most of the primarchs loyally followed the edict and began to appoint officers to the rank and duties of chaplain. Some did not.

So, there is a grey area.

You could equally make the argument that Mortarion wholeheartedly took the Chaplain idea on board, as an example to his recalcitrant brothers (especially those who employed psykers commonly), and as proof to his father of his loyalty in that regard.

The point being that a 'gap' has been left, and again I think this is one of the wonderful things about PH modelling. Just because there is no example of a Chaplain in the HH books so far does not mean they didn't exist (remember we are most likely talking about 100,000 marines here for every legion).

I suppose the ultimate decision has to come down to what conception of Pre-Heresy you wish to follow. You have to remember that the vast majority of players will wonder why your DG aren't dark green and dribbling everywhere, let alone whether or not they should have a Chaplain.

That being said, there is a pretty large Pre-Heresy community nowadays, and a lot of us strive for a certain level of accuracy. You could go with 'only if it's in the books', going as far as ensuring pauldron edges and studs are in the correct places, and complete matching sets of a certain armour mark. Some players do this, but if I were to be honest most don't go to that level of detail.

In which case, my own recommendation (in terms of how I see the Pre-Heresy period) would be to go with 'innocent until proven guilty'. If the text explicitly says something is not usable or was not around during the Great Crusade (mk7 armour for instance) then don't use it. But, if there is a model you like and you think it fits the character of what you are trying to achieve, then it's senseless to fit a straightjacket to yourself and give up that simply enjoyment on the basis of something which is open to debate.

So my advice would be to go for it, I don't know anyone who would deride the decision if it were handled correctly. Just my $0.02 on the matter

Thank you for all your replies. I will use the Chaplain, since the Death Guard only had seven Captains and no Librarians.

Wasn't Typhus a psyker?

The Emperors Children had a Chaplain who turned traitor, it's in one of the HH books.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:The Emperors Children had a Chaplain who turned traitor, it's in one of the HH books.

Yes, exactly it is in Horus heresy III.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:Wasn't Typhus a psyker?

Yes, he did have a phsychic powers but was no psyker.

Necanor wrote:

purplefood wrote:Wasn't Typhus a psyker?

Yes, he did have a phsychic powers but was no psyker.

Do you mean he was a psyker but didn't actively use his powers?

Necanor wrote:

purplefood wrote:Wasn't Typhus a psyker?

Yes, he did have a phsychic powers but was no psyker.

That makes no sence at all, a psyker is a being with psychic powers

Admittedly I do not recall any mention of chaplains within the Death Guard in the novel Flight of the Eisenstein but there is a great deal of blank history for the Death Guard pre-Heresy and like others have said there is a real possibility of them using them.

On the topic of Typhus I feel that it would be possible for him to become a psyker after their disastrous event within the Warp and Papa Nurgle's patronage of the Death Guard. It is also possible that Typhus had always been a psyker and simply repressed his abilities in the ideals of his primarch.

Typhon is a psyker but it's not so apparent from the Horus Heresy books thus far, I guess in the new fluff he has hidden his powers due to the stance from Mortarion on Psykers being witches.

But in previous fluff

Codicium Imperialis:
In his early days Mortarion had overthrown these monstrosities, however there were many crossbreeds resulting from their cruel dominion. The bloodlines were not easy to follow and Mortarion had more pressing concerns. Typhon was of such a bloodline. He possessed formidable psychic powers that allowed him to navigate the mist-shrouded world of Barbarus freely. These were merely latent powers at this time and would only develop with time and training.

When the Death Guard began to recruit on Barbarus it was Typhon's warrior skills that marked him out. In modern times the process is far more exacting -and should be - as much more is known about preserving the purity of the gene-seed, and a Space Marines chapter of a thousand men can be selective about its recruits. In the days of the Great Crusade the legions needed recruits with a good right arm and the courage to follow their Primarchs into battle. When it was realised that Typhon was also a Psyker he was welcomed even more as each legion was building up its strength in Librarians.

So it was that the Death Guard already harboured a tainted soul. Even as Mortarion led his legion on the Emperor's Great Crusade, Typhon communed with the Dark Powers. They already favoured him, and with their aid Typhon rose to the rank of Captain-Epistolary, commander of the battleship Terminus Est and a full company of the Death Guard. When the Death Guard joined Horus, it was Typhon who slew the Death Guard's Navigators claiming their loyalty was still to the Emperor. It was Typhon who promised Mortarion that his powers could lead the Death Guard through the Warp to Terra and it was Typhon who led them to damnation, becalmed in the Warp, adrift and helpless.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Necanor wrote:

purplefood wrote:Wasn't Typhus a psyker?

Yes, he did have a phsychic powers but was no psyker.

That makes no sence at all, a psyker is a being with psychic powers

I am sorry, I meant he usually did not use his powers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pilau Rice wrote:Typhon is a psyker but it's not so apparent from the Horus Heresy books thus far, I guess in the new fluff he has hidden his powers due to the stance from Mortarion on Psykers being witches.

Probably.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:

Necanor wrote:

purplefood wrote:Wasn't Typhus a psyker?

Yes, he did have a phsychic powers but was no psyker.

Do you mean he was a psyker but didn't actively use his powers?

yes, sorry for the confusing post.