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So, I had a strange idea for a DE army: gunline with say 2 hydras. Say something like 3-4 units of 20 crossbowmen lead by a Supreme Sorc with the magic repeater bow, a BSB and master with bow and things, maybe a level 2. And 2 hydras, obviously. Maybe a Reaper bolt thrower.

My thought was that you could sit back and spam spells and shots, and since the DE warriors are not too bad in melee do decently even when the enemy got to you, especially with the few melee oriented characters in each unit. Of course, I play WoC, and have zero experience with missile weapons that are not hand thrown by light cav, so this might not work at all.

What do you guys think about this? Can gunline DE work?

No offence but isn't that a classic DE list?

Yeah thats a fairly standard setup for DE. If you want to go pure gunline (with 2 Hydras as speed bumps/mop up) then you can create some scary lists with multiple units of 10 Crossbowmen, the only reason to take a larger unit is to provide more wounds for a Sorceress with Sacrificial Dagger. If you really want to maximise your damage output then 2 Supreme Sorceresses with Lore of Fire (Power of Darkness + repeated Fireballs = pain) work well in this kind of list.

If you run units of 16 (8 wide), you have the option for flank charging, with a good shot that you won't lose more than 3 xbowmen on the charge. Rank + Flank + Charge + Banner does a very good job supporting the hydras/chariots.
I've done a mass shooting list: 3x5 dark riders, 2x16 xbows, 18 handbow corsairs, 3x7 shades, 6 rending star assassins, and 4 bolt throwers, all led by a level 3 (metal) sorc with lifetaker (and flying carpet and +1spell)
It's a pretty mobile list that is hard to get points from (I flee lots of charges), and 6 assassins running around is kind of fun.
Not the most competitive, but a change of pace.
It doesn't really have a center mass to aim for.


-Matt

Good question, might well be standard. Never fought DE or run them before myself. All the battle reports I have seen (both?) have had some other random things other than just crossbows, so I figured mixes were more standard.

Glad to see my intuition after reading through the book was pretty well on, at least

Most DE armies indeed use the Repeater Crossbowmen to fill minimum Core. However, I think Wehrkind was suggesting taking a lot more Crossbowmen than the minimum. This is certainly not a standard DE list as the standard lists basically look like this:

Pegasus fighty guy (either unkillable dreadlord or a master)
Sorceress (mostly a level 4 with Shadow, sometimes a level 2)
Cauldron BSB

Minimum Core filling Repeater Crossbowmen (in units of 20)
Harpies

Black Guard / Witch Elves / Cold One Knights
Shades

Double War Hydra

Oh, yea, that's what I was thinking. Just piles of crossbows, a sorc with cross bow, some masters etc. with crossbows, then a repeater or two, maybe two hydras and some witch elves for flavor or something. Just try to overwhelm with double tapping BS4 crossbows.

Seems like it would have issues since being in range one turn means you are in charge range the next, but I don't know. Seems like they might be able to put out enough spells, then shots, to weaken things enough that their 5+/6+ (shield/handweapon) and half decent fighting skills could pull them out. Especially if an army had to beat down two hydras on the way. Like I said though, I have zero experience with serious shooting in WHFB.

The problem with the DE gunline is that it is pretty much all S3. Nerf arrows, so to speak. Against T4 stuff (of which there is a suprising amount) you won't do enough damage shooting to avoid being crushed in CC. And heaven help you if you run into a dwarf or empire gunline - they will smash you and you won't be able to stop them.

No, the true strength of the DE is maneuver, not shooting. We can agressively maneuver our shooting units, risking a charge into them because they are very nearly as good in CC as our other core infantry. We have some of the fastest light and medium cav in the game, our heavy cav hits like a ton of bricks, heck even the War Hydra is faster than most infantry! Add in a solid scout choice and (almost) core flying harrassers, and DE can outmaneuver anyone but Wood Elves.

And if we can ever get the little buggers into CC we can crush them easily. The trick is getting there.

Make sure you include a unit of 30 Crosbowmen with shields. Also put a dreadlord with "The guiding Eye" in there.

Run them 15 wide and 2 deep. Then unleash unholly hell on your enemy. If they are in short range you will hit on 4's with 60 shots with re-rolls to hit. You should hit 40, and kill allot of the enemy, and if they charge you you can stand a shoot hiting about 20 with no rerolls. Your enemy would have taken 60 S3 armour piercing shots. That will bring a bad ending to most enemies.

You have shield so you can win combat and keep more of your guys alive. The 5+/6+ makes a bid difference

The 30 strong crossbow block sees table time around here too. It'll usually be 15 wide, with a reform to 10 wide for imminent combat. Supported by a cauldron for killing blow or worse, shadow magic (or even worse, both), they're no slouches in combat.

There's a guy who does fairly well by taking the magic tower item and he uses the witchfate tor tower (not sure if that's legal or the intended use of the magic item) but he puts like a 55 strong unit of crossbow men in there and it has 5 levels to shoot out of. Plus he has his lvl 4 mage, general, and BSB in there and makes them unbreakable. It's pretty mean when you get up close to it. But dwellers would ruin his day.

Yay for Crack's Call I guess...