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Hi fellow dakkians,

Currently i'm using daemons - they've been really good thus far - however, i've decided to start a CSM army.
My fellow 40k players who i game with use pretty competitive builds - Mechdar, Long Wolf Spam, Parking Lot guard etc.
I want to make the most disgusting CSM build so i can keep up with them.

Sooo.. i need your help - any list will be helpful.

Pretty please..?

Thank you in advance

BBJ

A rough outline (talking about a 2k point list here):

Two winged Daemon princes with MoN and warptime. They'll draw fire and hopefully also wreck vehicles.

3x3 Obliterators. Keep them in cover. Deepstrike one of the cults near IG parking lots to mess him up. Remeber you can multi-assault (if they live that long! But even if they get shot up after arriving and melta-ing something important, they'll divert fire from the rest of your army for a turn.)

3 Chaos termies with 3 combi-weapons. Deepstrike these as well. Use them to get a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

A healthy squad of Khorne Berserkers with a skull champion. I'd go with power weapon instead of a fist, and meltabombs. Skip the plasma pistols; they just don't shoot that much. Put these in the Land Raider, and get Extra Armor or Daemon possession on the raider so it's always moving to deliver them.

(Alternatively, skip the Land Raider and just het another squad, with both in EA rhinos. I like giving enemies an AV 14 target to worry about; it splits the enemy's heavy weapons between it and the Princes/Oblits)

1-3 squads of plague marines in rhinos. Get 2 meltas or 2 plasma guns in each, and rhinos. Use them to blow transports and tanks from close range, then get them in cover in objectives. Power Fists are good here to help against walkers and MCs.

Get a rhino with a 5-man unit of Chosen. Arm them with 5 plasma/melta in a combination. These will be outflanking to kill tanks and artillery like Long Fangs.

Sephyr is right, mostly.

DP - Wings, MoS, Lash
DP - Wings, MoS, Lash
9 Oblits
2x3 Termicide
3 PM squads - 2x 2 Meltaa, 1x 2 Plasma, Rhino, Icon, Fist Champ

Something around their is the best CSM has too offer, sadly.

THE competitive CSM list is basically what people have been saying, only I've seen it with Lash Sorcerors instead...I've found the sweet spot to be, @ 1,850...

2x Lash Sorcerors: 250, 3x3 Oblits: 675, 3x2 units of 5 Plague Marines with 2 Meltaguns ea in Rhinos: 510, 1x unit of 5 Plague Marines w/ 2 Plasmaguns in a Rhino: 180, and 1x unit of 8 Berzerkers, 1 is a Skull Champ w/ Fist in a Rhino: 233.

odorofdeath wrote:Sephyr is right, mostly.

DP - Wings, MoS, Lash
DP - Wings, MoS, Lash
9 Oblits
2x3 Termicide
3 PM squads - 2x 2 Meltaa, 1x 2 Plasma, Rhino, Icon, Fist Champ

Something around their is the best CSM has too offer, sadly.

I think you mean MoN, warptime on the princes.

Lash isn't really that useful because most people just don't bring unmounted infantry anymore. MoN gives you a toughness bonus which is awesome, and warptime makes you even awesomer in combat.

I personally lean towards Lash Princes myself. They move Monstrous Creatures or infantry that's spilled out of cracked transports just fine, but mainly I like them because they're so darn cheap! 155 is a steal for a unit that's both functional AND killy.

I've been running 3x Oblits and 2x Defilers (With all the rhinos running around, you have a fair bit of saturation), but I am starting to come around to the idea of maximizing Oblits.

Try as I might, I really like Berzerkers better than Plagues. They simply seem to swing more games. I'm down to running minimal-sized Plague squads with specials but could see myself dropping them entirely. I also really like fists on the Berzerker sarges because it lets you open up pretty much any armor in the game. True, Landraiders are a bit of a stretch, but those are a stretch for every dang thing in the CSM codex it seems.

A Lash sorcerer in a rhino squad can still be useful.

Daemon Princes of any variety are no longer in vogue due to the disgusting abundance of Missile Launchers made possible by Space Wolves.

What I'd recommend?

CSM and Plague Marines in rhinos with dual specials--predominantly melta.

3x3 or 3x4 Terminators with combi meltas, a single chainfist, and a heavy flamer if taking squads of 4. Always put these guys into reserves, and always deep strike aggressively to kill enemy armor. They're also a 'free' Land Raider heavy slot, since you can take one as a dedicated transport, park it on an objective, and walk a min scoring squad into it on T1.

Havocs with Autocannons are a good buy due to the abundance of AV11 and AV12 on the tables these days, but your best all-round heavy support choice is still going to be 2x2 or 3x2 Oblits in 2k points.

I like Lash, but is his friends are competitive (IG, Space Wolves), I thought it wouldn't get a chance to shine.

When Lash works, it's -very- good. I saw a friend face walking Deathwing and he just toyed with those termies all game, tossing them aside, then serving them to his oblit for plasma cannon shots and to his zerkers to finish it up.

I've been contemplating Tzeentch princes for high-point games, too: 4++ save, Warptime plus winds of chaos every turn generating a murderous amount of wounds...but I'm not going to suggest something I haven't tested.

If you're wanting to drop a load of cash I think this one is really good and looks awesome on the table.


2000 Pts – Chaos Marines Roster

1 Chaos Lord, 125 pts (Power Fist; Combi-melta)

5 Chosen, 165 pts (Flamer x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

5 Chosen, 165 pts (Flamer x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

5 Chosen, 165 pts (Flamer x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

4 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts (Meltagun x1)
1 Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

4 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts (Meltagun x1)
1 Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

4 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts (Meltagun x1)
1 Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

4 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts (Meltagun x1)
1 Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

4 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts (Meltagun x1)
1 Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

4 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts (Meltagun x1)
1 Aspiring Champion (Combi-melta)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

5 Havocs, 150 pts (Flamer x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

5 Havocs, 150 pts (Flamer x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

5 Havocs, 150 pts (Flamer x2; Meltagun x2)
1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter; Combi-plasma)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Notes: Why combi-plasmas? Combi-flamers aren't scary. Combi-meltas miss at critical junctures. Plasma kills everything in some way, and at 10 points is one of the rare ‘deals’ Chaos gets. The Lord? He’s cheaper than Kharn, and about as useful. He won’t eat quite as much, but he’s reasonably destructive.

I'd like something like this for 1750 points, competative enough and great fun:

155 Daemon Prince, Wings, MoS, LoS
175 Daemon Prince, Wings, MoN, Warptime
100 Greater Daemon

105 Dreadnought, additional DCCW, Heavy Flamer
105 Dreadnought, additional DCCW, Heavy Flamer

185 10 CSM, 2xMeltagun, Aspiring Champion
45 Rhino, CombiMelta
185 10 CSM, 2xMeltagun, Aspiring Champion
45 Rhino, CombiMelta
150 5 Plague Marines, 2xPlasmagun, Aspiring Champion
45 Rhino, CombiPlasma

150 Defiler
150 Defiler
150 Defiler

1745

WAAC CSM is all about spamming in the non-troops choices. Always has been. The options just aren't versatile enough to do otherwise.

Here's what I came up with for 2000 points:

Sorcerer, MoS, Lash
Sorcerer, MoS, Lash
3 Terminators, 3 Combi-Meltas
8 Berzerkers, Power Fist, Rhino w/ Combi-Melta
8 Berzerkers, Power Fist, Rhino w/ Combi-Melta
8 Berzerkers, Power Fist, Rhino
5 Plague Marines, Power Fist, 2 Plasma Guns, Rhino
3 Obliterators
3 Obliterators
3 Obliterators

1999


For 1750 points I'd have a similar list:

Sorcerer, MoS, Lash
Sorcerer, MoS, Lash
7 Berzerkers, Power Fist, Rhino w/ Combi-Melta
7 Berzerkers, Power Fist, Rhino w/ Combi-Melta
5 Plague Marines, Power Fist, 2 Melta Guns, Rhino
5 Plague Marines, Power Fist, 2 Plasma Guns, Rhino
3 Obliterators
3 Obliterators
2 Obliterators

1744 (I think)

I chose Lash Sorcerers because Lash is still a rock to many scissors, and Obliterators do pretty well at opening up at least one enemy vehicle per turn ready for Lashy goodness. The synergy of lash with plasma cannons and berzerker charges is still brilliant, even if it gets shut down 50% of the time by psychic protection.

Sorcerers over princes because they are more survivable in squads in rhinos. And cheaper. And can instaglib independent characters in combat at high initiative.

Even MoN princes die too easily nowadays. And warptime is more susceptible than lash to anti-psyker abilities due to proximity.

MrDrumMachine wrote:Notes: Why combi-plasmas? Combi-flamers aren't scary. Combi-meltas miss at critical junctures. Plasma kills everything in some way, and at 10 points is one of the rare ‘deals’ Chaos gets. The Lord? He’s cheaper than Kharn, and about as useful. He won’t eat quite as much, but he’s reasonably destructive.

Newer player question here:

My "why combi-plasma" question is not about the plasma choice, since that makes sense to me, but about the single shot aspect. Just trying to learn the thinking here. I love the 12x rhino list, just wondering on choosing combi over going down to the TL Bolter and using the 5 saved points on trading out the melta in a few of your troops for 2x plasma guns which can have more than 1 shot, even after the rhinos get popped?

Just trying to learn is all. Thanks for any info.

venjenz wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:Notes: Why combi-plasmas? Combi-flamers aren't scary. Combi-meltas miss at critical junctures. Plasma kills everything in some way, and at 10 points is one of the rare ‘deals’ Chaos gets. The Lord? He’s cheaper than Kharn, and about as useful. He won’t eat quite as much, but he’s reasonably destructive.

Newer player question here:

My "why combi-plasma" question is not about the plasma choice, since that makes sense to me, but about the single shot aspect. Just trying to learn the thinking here. I love the 12x rhino list, just wondering on choosing combi over going down to the TL Bolter and using the 5 saved points on trading out the melta in a few of your troops for 2x plasma guns which can have more than 1 shot, even after the rhinos get popped?

Just trying to learn is all. Thanks for any info.

CSM Combi-weapons on vehicles are upgrades that add an additional weapon. They don't replace the TL-bolter. So you add an extra weapon for the purpose of "Weapon Destroyed" > "Immobilized" results, and once you've fired your combi-weapon, you've got 4 shots with defensive weapons.

In practice, with meltaguns, you're only going to get one shot off anyway when you really need it. IE: that vehicle that just NEEDS to die. So I look at it as...would I rather 2 Marines fire with meltaguns, or 2 Marines AND the vehicle fire their meltaguns? At 10 points, it allows a 45 pt vehicle to threaten 250 pt vehicles carrying 300 pt deathstars.