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So a friend and i decided to play a friendly sit down of 40k to experiment with the new Grey Knight codex. Playing against new armies is fun and helps you get to know the new codex so i was all for it. So i put my dark eldar on the field which i am most definitely a novice at. He was playing a largely terminator army which is pretty impressive looking on the field. Even though there was lots of 2 plus saves and everything i thought you know with agonizers and lelelith i may still stand a chance. So turn one was mine i was excited we were playing spear head and i knew from his deployment i could actually get a turn one assault so i figured yay lets throw some wyches at them and just see what happens. we get into assault and hes like ok i need to roll for these new grenades called psychotropic grenades. Im like ok sweet what do those do? Its random he says and proceeds to roll a d6. Its a 2, I was like oh ok whats that do as i still sat thinking to myself im still in this assault. Hes like oh yay as he squealed with glee im like uh ok whats with all the hardee har har? He proceeds to explain to me that all my wyches now have only 1 attack to deal and by the way all my terminators auto hit you now oh also i have rad grenades so i treat you as toughness 2. My jaw hits the floor as magical flamer template arms crush the life from my poor little wyches. Then i was like ok crap well he definitely wont get that same result if i charge him with leliths squad. Increased sadness and despair on turn 2 as i charge him again and he yet rolls a 2 again. Lelith and her squad were murdered mercilessly. Granted it was a 10 man squad with grey knight grand master but auto hits in a assault hurts . Beware of magical flamer template arms on grey knights If an opponent has psychotrope grenades dont bother assaulting that squad the only time they dont whorishly rape you is on a roll of a 1.

i dont remember them all but ill try to get them all down so you guys know what to expect.
1 nothing

2 auto hits and the enemy gets one attack per model

3 i believe this one is leadership is counted as 2 for the enemy

4 i think its enemy strikes at initiative 1

5 i dont remember number 5 it is possibly enemy weapon skill minused by one but not sure

6 is the enemy must take an initiative test for every model that fails they strike the enemies own models.

I saw an entire orc boy squad murder itself with number 6

In other words if they have psychotrope grenades DO NOT ASSAULT lol or do so at your own peril. Better off hosing their hq squads down with murderous amounts of plasma or blasting them demolisher shells or maybe hosing them down with disintegrator fire.

They're called Psychostroke grenades, not psychotropic.

And you have a few of the effects messed up. And we already know that they're crazy deadly. You're kind of late on the subject.

It is nice to see the old grenades making a comeback thu as crazy as they are.The original hallucinogen gas was just as nuts even more so since you could throw them.

Needs vortex grenade, no grenade arsenal is complete without them!

2 questions.

1.) You know that, at minimum, that squad costs 600 points and is footslogging, right?

2.) Armed with that knowledge, why would you not just sit back and shoot dark lances at him?

Its a new codex I wanted my friend to be able to test their abilities purely for fun It was just a field test to test their abilities.

Osyr wrote:Needs vortex grenade, no grenade arsenal is complete without them!

Vortex Grenades, instant death to all. Also the Psyker power Vortex (which was the same thing), though really creating a small singularity seems a bit, well uncontrollable.

I would really like to see grenades come back into the game as actual weapons you can use, instead of them just being used in assaults/defense these days.

ya whipping grenades at people sounds extremely fun!

vaderx30 wrote:ya whipping grenades at people sounds extremely fun!

It could take away some of the over powered cover saves in 5th edition. Oh your Guardians are behind some reinforcements huh? Well how about I toss some template grenades in there so you don't get that 3+ cover save!

Crom wrote:

vaderx30 wrote:ya whipping grenades at people sounds extremely fun!

It could take away some of the over powered cover saves in 5th edition. Oh your Guardians are behind some reinforcements huh? Well how about I toss some template grenades in there so you don't get that 3+ cover save!

Great... Because we need to encourage people to play SM armies more...

Throw grenades at me and get pie plates back in return.


Played against GK in 3 games so far, and i was pretty wrong about them.
I was thinking they are pretty much an auto-win army.
However, they have alot of strong builds that are easy to make, which gives that impression.

Biggest mistake was not reading the book before playing him.
That alone caused me alot of problems with unknown items (i scanned through it, but didnt read too far into things)

1: DE - Lances are great as allways, even better when they tear through termies.
Even more so when they are rather expensive termies.

no fearless really doesent help them.

combat wise they are monsters, so with shunting units i had real problems.

S5 storms really arent much fun to get hit by.

Long story short - I went in without reading into it, i got hammered pretty badly.




2: Necrons - This was an amusing game.
Mainly consisted of him throwing everything he had at my 2 lith's but failing to kill them.

While that was amusing, i couldnt keep my warriors in reserve forever, and yet again, dreadknights got into combat and ruined my day.

Result - Alot better that time, managed to only get a minor loss that time lol.




3: Daemons - I know, not the best idea but its my 3rd and final army.

biggest lesson - Get the charge, dont let them do so.
Being dropped to I1 really isnt any fun and hinders you alot when you have a unit with power weps getting cut apart before they can hit back.
however, they did redeem themselves and start cutting through units in the end.

Warpquake is nasty for slower daemons as you have to drop back further than normal then slog it.
Not such a problem with beasts or if the unit has fleet, but for crushers and letters this was a problem i learned early on, then kept my distance with DS's.

KoS is pretty effective and im glad i took it over a thirster.
Not only is it cheaper, the extra movement really does help out alot.

About the only problem i really have are the staves (?) that give a 2++ in combat.
My daemons are pretty much limited to CC, so that really did cause a problem.
However, sheer weight of attacks managed to solve it.

Result - Minor win to me.



These were basic games though, im sure once he has had time to tinker with the list it will be alot stronger and cause me more problems.
I will however get a chance to read the book from cover to cover and learn a bit moer in that time though.




Granted that some of thier weapons/items are pretty nasty, but so is the price they pay for them.
Dont have any real issues with them as of yet, but ill reserve a final comment for them once ive played a few more games against them.

Grenades should kill people. Directly, not because they spew magic gas that makes you hallucinate.

*shrug*

Jackster...the Marine hate gets old. Not all armies are created equal - but you can kill anything with anything else if you have the models, luck, and tactical sense. I don't play tournaments, so to me a loss is just another reason to try again. It's a game - have some fun.

Fafnir wrote:They're called Psychostroke grenades, not psychotropic.

Psychotroke Grenades, is the right name.

Jackster wrote:

Crom wrote:

vaderx30 wrote:ya whipping grenades at people sounds extremely fun!

It could take away some of the over powered cover saves in 5th edition. Oh your Guardians are behind some reinforcements huh? Well how about I toss some template grenades in there so you don't get that 3+ cover save!

Great... Because we need to encourage people to play SM armies more...

Back in 2nd edition every race (except maybe Tyranids) had grenades. Eldar had plasma grenades, Imperium forces had frag/krak, Orks had stikkbombs, Chaos had what Imperium had, and then characters get wargear. You could slap special grenades on characters.

Cover saves are a bit over powered when a unit as cheap as Guardians or say Ork Boyz get a 3+ fixed saving throw and only cost a fraction of the points that armored units do. Plus, marines WILL ALWAYS be a popular army. Either you like them or you hate them, but I have a Marine army. They are fun, but I also have several other armies.

Also, blame GW for making Space Marines good at everything. Maybe one day they will fix it

No, they won't fix it. They are THE central characters. If you hate them and the bias toward them SO much - go play something else, really. You are in the wrong game.

Even in real life some armies are just better than others. Better training, better equipment - better. Does that make them unchallengeable? No. Not my a long shot.

Channel your hate into better strategy or something - but don't spew it at the actual players. People are entitled to like what they like. Personally, I HATE Nurgal armies. The whole "disease and pus is cool" is totally beyond me. I. Don't. Get. It. At all. And I have yet to beat Nergal CSM, but I keep trying. I don't question people's right to play them. I don't call them cheesey power gamers for taking an army of T5 FNP 3+ fearless dudes. It's a challenge. It's a game. If it was easy, or all the armies were the same - it would not have kept my interest for 20+ years.

I personally don't like over powered characters. I prefer games to be fought out using actual tactics or soldiers, and that is why I do like 5th edition. They have toned down the characters a lot, and while some are powerful, none are invincible like they used to be. I do think cover saves can be quite ridiculous in the game, and I think grenades are the answer. For anti marine grenades use krak, they will most likely be AP3 so no armor save allowed, they will just be harder to hit since you wold need a direct hit to kill a marine.

why are peeps hating on guardians saying they have a 3+ save .. Its a 4+ get your facts right people. Grey knights have changed my feelings on space mariines =3 crazy crazy stuff. Yay my baby carrier can rocket 30 inches to wreck ur face..

Eyesedragon wrote:why are peeps hating on guardians saying they have a 3+ save .. Its a 4+ get your facts right people. Grey knights have changed my feelings on space mariines =3 crazy crazy stuff. Yay my baby carrier can rocket 30 inches to wreck ur face..

Uh, 3+ behind reinforced cover, and I was specifically talking about Eldar Guardians. Hence the comment about cheap units using cover to gain the same saving throws as expensive ones.

Isn't that pretty much why troops in battle use cover. You know, to stop being shot at, and stuff.

seejay wrote:Isn't that pretty much why troops in battle use cover. You know, to stop being shot at, and stuff.

No I think cover saves are great, I just think they are bit over powered is all. I think you should reduce the saves is all, or employ more ways to ignore them. Like being able to toss grenades into cover.

VoidAngel wrote:Grenades should kill people. Directly, not because they spew magic gas that makes you hallucinate.

*shrug*

Jackster...the Marine hate gets old. Not all armies are created equal - but you can kill anything with anything else if you have the models, luck, and tactical sense. I don't play tournaments, so to me a loss is just another reason to try again. It's a game - have some fun.

As if I dont know that, I'd rather keep my cover save though.
Besides, how can anyone claim cover save to be broken when almost all armies have flamers.

Oh in case anyone cares the new grenades are actually called psychotroke grenades not psychostroke.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Cover is overpowered for t3 models? Really?

Maybe learn to maneuver and use flamers more....

ya considering most t3 models have a save of 4 or 5 flamers and heavy flamers literally murder them off the board in grand fashion

vaderx30 wrote:ya considering most t3 models have a save of 4 or 5 flamers and heavy flamers literally murder them off the board in grand fashion

That is if you can get close enough. Don't get me wrong, I know how effective a trukk filled with burna boyz is, but at the same time you gotta take cover yourself to avoid their big guns.

Who actually takes Flamers any more? It was my understanding most people just buy Meltaguns and Missile launchers (or equivalent).

Luke_Prowler wrote:Who actually takes Flamers any more? It was my understanding most people just buy Meltaguns and Missile launchers (or equivalent).

It just depends on how you build your army. If I am running my marines I will run melta guns and missile launchers. If I am running my Orks they are all fast attack so I will run flamer squads because orks have crappy BS, and flamers automatically hit. It just depends on your tactics is all. Since Orks in Trukks can get up in your face fast the burnas can be a good weapon choice.

Luke_Prowler wrote:Who actually takes Flamers any more? It was my understanding most people just buy Meltaguns and Missile launchers (or equivalent).

Well, IG takes them on pretty much all their vehicles
Anyway, but yeah, not too many people take them on infantry anymore, with the exception of BA Assault Marines (Where a lot of players do a mix of melta and flamer squads) and Burna Boyz.

I'm in love with the flamestorm cannon. On scouting Baal predators? Yes, please.

Grey Knights with incinerators? Yes. Land Raider Redeemers with flamestorm cannons with psyflame ammo (I think)? Yes, please.

Deep striking Legion of the Damned with a heavy flamer, flamer, and combiflamer? Yes. (Totally mad, I know, but it works and fits my army fluff).