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I was wondering if you all would be so kinda as to 'bust some knowledge' on me. I currently play an over 2k blood angels army. I'm relatively new to the game, and I'm looking to get back into DA. I started Warhammer with a DA army, and never even played a game with them before I got interested in soul drinkers and my interest went bye bye. Now, with my BA (soul drinker painted) army 'done', and my Tyranid army gone, I'm looking to get back into DA if it's viable. What is the 'flavor of the month...or year...' for DA and how is it played? I'm really digging the idea of the Deathwing, and where I play the +3 FAQ is and will be honored on the SS.

I have my BA 2500+ point army to be my Tournament army and all that if I decide to get into tournaments...but, I love the DA back story and all that. And, I like that their also a bit unique in their models too. I want to play it for fun against local players and my buddies possibly, but, losing constantly isn't fun, so, lets hear the suggestions.

I'm not looking for "Play your BA army don't waste your time", so if that's your suggestion...keep on moving and don't bother clicking "Reply"

Thanks a TON in advance everyone

-JD

I run Deathwing primarily. In a 1500 point game its Belail with TH/SS, 4 5 man squads, and a RAS with an attack bike and 6 normal bikes. Turbo boost the bikes, deep strike in, and have fun. Unless your dice go bad and you roll 4 ones for invul saves...

IMHO: Coolest is pure Deathwing. Best on the tabletop is probably a DW core supported by Ravenwing and standard DA elements.

Happy Hunting

I used a pure deathwing for a while before adding in Ravenwing elements. The whole thinks back on the drawing board right now until I shuffle around some of my weapon loadouts. Try Belial + Squads of DW Termies w/ Cyclone Racks. Bonus points if the termies have TH/SS (maybe with 2 lightning claw termies as well). With DW though, be aware that bad luck will cripple your force much faster than usual. If you roll 5/5 ones rolling for normal infantry save, you're like "Crap, I just lost 60 points of units." For deathwing the same roll yields "Crap, I just lost 250 points of Terminators". A round of poor armor saves will quickly put DW out of commission because they're so reliant on those saves.

Awesom suggestions so far! I greatly appreciate it!

Could someone explain what the tactics are with a squad of ravenwing? Do you field the 6 bikes and the attack bike?

Also, per the GW FAQ it seems that DA apothecaries confer FNP now too?

Thanks again!

Yep, that's right! Dark Angel apothecaries grant feel no pain to the squad they are with now.

Take the apoth, the Ravenwing Company Standard, and throw in a power weapon for the sarg, and you have a good reason to take a full six bike squadron. Otherwise, I don't like to a full attack squadron. You still get two special weapons and the choice of an attack bike with the minimum three. The scoring tornado land speeder isn't that big of an incentive for me to buy three more normal bikers.

I run a dualwing list and melta-up the bikers and attack bikes for dedicated armor-hunting after they guide in teleporting Deathwing first turn.

Could you exPand on the dual wing army you run? That sounds like the style I want to roll with these guys with. Also, do you use anything for long range support?

Just remember Ravenwing bikes CANNOT turboboost during the scout move.

Roger dodger!

About Dualwing...

First of all a disclaimer: I still haven't settled on a take-all-comers list with the new FAQ. It has changed the way it's played a lot.

Anyway, the foundation of a traditional Dualwing is Belial and Sammael for the HQ. These two HQ's allow for two apothecary upgrades, one in a Deathwing (DW) squad and one in an Ravenwing attack squadron (RAS) (and yes a third could be had in a command squad but it's not too feasible). Before the FAQ these apothecaries made 6" bubbles where you could sometimes ignore a failed save, a huge benefit with your high priced models. With the new FAQ the biggest benefit of Belial and Sammael is they make your Deathwing termies and Ravenwing bikers troop choices (and thus scoring). Since both units types are fearless, very durable, very mobile, pretty killy and all scoring, Dualwing plays nothing like vanilla marines (heh, more like daemons if anything).

The biggest disadvantage is that with the point investment of the two HQ's and the high base cost of your troops, model count is low, LOW, LOW! My 1500 current take-all-comers list with Belial, Sammy, 3 DW, 2 RAS w/ attack bikes has 25 models. (LOW!!) But that is 7 scoring units and 9 kill points, again all fearless.

Before I get too long winded, playing Dualwing goes a little like this: DW go into reserves, RAS scout ahead, half (rounding up) of the DW squads deepstrike first turn and lay down fire, RAS with meltas hunt vehicles, DW shoot the assaulty units and assault the shooty units taking contested objectives, surviving RAS can turboboost late game to take objectives.

As for long range support, the cyclone missile launcher got a huge boost with the FAQ. Otherwise Sammael in a landspeeder is a speedy, durable fire support base. And of course all elite and heavy slots are open for other more traditional options...

Thanks for the info! What does RAS stand for? I'm assuming ravenwing attack squad?

Yep, Ravenwing Attack Squadron.

Just our of curiosity, what have other DA players changed since the FAQ?

I've gone far more to using Deathwing (and thus, away from Ravenwing somewhat), and started using multimelta/typhoon speeders in pretty much every list.

Man so many things have changed since I last made the attempt to play. Still tryin to figure out when they changed chapter masters

We don't play over 1500 much around here anymore due to space/time constraints, but I've had great success with a mostly Deathwing force... 3 TH/SS and 2 LC in each squad, one CML (on a LC guy usually), the DW command squad with banner and Apothecary is "neat", and if Belial has his LC option armed, potentially a huge number of LC/TH attacks, but it is pretty pricey... Usually I set up a squad or two in cover on an objective and dare the enemy to come dig us out... Supported by a Ravenwing squadron (3 bikes, one attack bike) for the teleport homers, etc., they do fairly well really only failing against straight horde armies (IG "Power Blobs" or Ork "Green Tide" type) because they simply do not have the bodies to put out the number of attacks necessary to not get buried under the mass of bodies... "Dual Wing" at 1500 is doable, but really tight point wise, and really I haven't found that the RW being Troops or FA has made TOO much a difference (Dawn of War mission being the big exception)... And it does mean no possibility of a Librarian, etc... So, no psychic defense at all which can hurt you...

Thanks again everyone for the info. I made a sweet list up last night that I think will be rather competitive against meq armies.

Also, is there any reason that if I take 3 DW term units, I cant, DWA 2 of them on turn 1 and drop pod assault the 3rd unit as well per the Drop Pod rules? The codex states specifically that the 1/2 rounded up is for DWA for deepstrike. IMO, the drop pod isn't being placed because of DWA, it's being entered under the drop pod turn 1 rule.

Thanks!

Jardaddy wrote:Thanks again everyone for the info. I made a sweet list up last night that I think will be rather competitive against meq armies.

Also, is there any reason that if I take 3 DW term units, I cant, DWA 2 of them on turn 1 and drop pod assault the 3rd unit as well per the Drop Pod rules? The codex states specifically that the 1/2 rounded up is for DWA for deepstrike. IMO, the drop pod isn't being placed because of DWA, it's being entered under the drop pod turn 1 rule.

Thanks!

Dark Angels drop pods don't get the dop pod assault. They always come in on regular reserves.

I play mostly 1850 and 2000pts. I've tried out the deathwing+ras and done deathwing+speeders+vindicators. I think deathwing+ras is the most fun just because of the amount of deployment options you go into every game with. I'm currently toying around with using some basic marines in my lists to up the body count. I have a few reports in the batreps section with deathwing at 2-3 tournaments I've gone to recently if you want some light reading.

Awesome . I'll check them out!

Yes, the Deathwing assault is a bit better (for Terminators at least) since it is "may" and not "must"... In the event your opponent goes all reserve and has nothing on the table during your turn one, you can hold back a bit...

Since the FAQ Sammael doesn't seem as useful to me. With Ravenwing apothecaries not helpful to the Deathwing elements, and attack bike still always scoring (just checked the FAQ to make sure), Sammy doesn't quite seem worth it. Especially since he cost almost the same as three mm/ typhoon landspeeders.

What to do with the HQ slot? Librarians and their psychic hoods worthwhile with GK on the way?

I must have missed it in the FAQ but attack bikes are always scoring now?

The FAQ actually didn't change anything with that, Ravenwing attack bikes and attack squadron (but not support squadron) Land Speeders have always been scoring. We can thank the 4th Ed codex for that quirk. It's in the Ravenwing Combat Squads box on p. 27 to see for yourself.

So really Sammael just makes bikers scoring.

So per the dex, they're scoring eventhough they don't fall under the troop selection?

With Sammy they are troops.

Also, comparison with codex marines

Dark Angels positives

- Terminators as Troops
- Terminators can mix and match assault and shooting
- Bikes, attack bikes, and Land Speeders apart of Ravenwing Attack Squads as troops
- BS4 scouts
- Cheap Typhoons
- AV 14 Land Speeder a la Sammael
- 5 man special weapon squads
- Azrael grants his unit a 4+ invulnerable
- Interrogator chaplains (+1 BS, W,I, and A for 20 more pts than a standard codex chaplain)
- 4 characters with Rites of Battle
-unlimited range psychic hood
-Terminators have cheaper Cyclone Missile Launchers
-Cheaper Venerable Dreadnoughts (though lacking in the stats of the codex Ven. Dreads.)
-Techmarines do not use up a FOC slot
- Servitors have more and cheaper upgrades
- Land Raider Crusader comes with a free multi-melta
- Rhino Storm Bolters are cheaper
-DA servitors have a better BS and WS than codex marine scouts.

Cons of the Dark Angels
- Captain stats are worse than codex equivalent
-Command Squad has more expensive upgrades
-Librarians are more expensive and have less variety of psychic powers.
- Scouts are elites and cannot be taken as troops
- No camo cloaks for scouts
- No Vanguard Vets
- Tactical Sgt's have less upgrade options
- No combat tactics
- Tactical squad upgrades are more expensive
- Terminators are more expensive
- Terminators may not take a dedicated transport
- Dreadnoughts are more expensive
- Less types of Dreadnought
-Techmarines are more expensive and have less options
- Servitors are more expensive
- Assault Marines are more expensive
- Can't have a squadron of Typhoons. Limit of 3 (per FOC)
- Bikes cannot add less than 3 bikes
- Bikes have less options
- No scout bikes
- No Thunderfire Cannons
- Land Raiders cannot take multi-meltas
- No Land Raider Redeemer
- Predators are more expensive with more expensive upgrades
- Vindicators are more expensive
- Rhino Hunter-Killer Missiles are more expensive
- Razorbacks are more expensive with less options
- Drop pods are more expensive with no options and do not have the 'Drop Pod Assault' special rule

- Upgrade sprue is cheaper than a tactical squad, but comes with less other weapons than boltguns for the squad

Jardaddy said: "So per the dex, they're scoring eventhough they don't fall under the troop selection."

Luco said: "With Sammy they are troops."

Exactly.

Luco posted a really good summation of the pros and cons of DA. It is good to see some more pros with the FAQ out.

Oh to add to that list: DA servitors have a better BS and WS than codex marine scouts. That always amuses me for some reason.