Erazmus_M_Wattle wrote:Okay! If you look back over the discussion you'll note that people have noticed a drop in quantities of metal blisters.
The price of tin just goes up all the time. We no GW wish to stop using it at some point. Which point?
A source of mine that isn't GW, combined with a rumour from one of my contacts suggests that it might change sooner than expected.
Now there not going to make all those blisters in "injected" plastic. Not metal and not polystyrene. So that leaves?...

Erazmus_M_Wattle wrote:Well bearing in mind this is only a rumour. I use the same silicone and resin supplier as GW. In one of their most recent newsletters they had an article about GW. The article was about how FW had been using their products for years but now they were working closer than ever with GW to implement new techniques and production methods. I read it and just thought FW.
But something one of my contacts said suddenly made me think of the article. So resin blisters seams exactly what we'll be getting. I could be wrong. That I'll admit but I like the sound of it.
(...)
They're called Bentley Chemicals and to be honest their article didn't really reveal anything. They just seemed proud that GW was one of their customers.
To answer the other posters. Resin dust is harmful but I wouldn't expect polystyrene dust to be any better for you. Resins are petrochemical products the sane as plastic after all.
I wouldn't expect them to use the same resins as FW cos in my opinion it's not the best for thin parts. I got some Khorne terminator bits recently and damn are the stylised horns fragile.

Harry wrote:You have to start somewhere.
You are doing very well for a first rumour.

Just got note from GW that they will stop the production of metal products for at least 3 months. The Sales guys don`t know why, most items are already out of stock, so I guess they stopped productions already some weeks ago...

sigur wrote:If that's true this means a massive change. I'm not convinced until we see any facts so let's see.

It is a HUGE change.
It is not an April fools joke. (I have known about it for a while it is just unfortunate timing for the rumour to break).
It is really happening.

mechanicalhorizon from Privateer Press wrote:If what I've been told is correct they are going to be spin-casting the resin using vulcanized silicone molds, the same molds used for metal casting just with a different cutting technique more suited to the flow of resin. We had in the past retrofitted some old molds for metal casting to test out resin casting and they worked fairly well, 3even better with some extra cutting.

So if GW is sticking with this method, and they probably are since spin casting resin is mostly the same as spin casting metal, it also uses much of the same equipment so there would be no extra set-up cost.

If this is correct than they can still use the existing masters to make new molds.

Even is they were to move towards an RTV-type material you could still use the existing masters to make new molds.

There really is no reason for GW to stop making any product because of a change in materials.

This is what I heard.

yabbadabba wrote:GW have done this a few times before whether by range or the entire product. They are not operating at full capacity currently. They will know what models sell slowly, which sell quick and how much stock is across their sales channels and at HQ. They will have ramped up production on some lines to tide them over, and stopped making others sometime last year (yes some things do sell that slow). In short I think you are selling them short on planning.

What this seems to suggest to me is GW are looking to sell through enough metal stock within 3 months to minimalise on the amount left in the system when they switch to resin. That also suggests that for whatever reason they expect the resin to be in more demand than the metal when its released. Read into that what you will.

The final thing is about resin dust. I can't see GW deliberately cutting off their kiddy market. Which means either they are seriously going to ramp up the plastics, and leave a few kits as resins that can only be sold to a certain age group, or they have a resin/resin process that won't cause this concern.
Or they have decided to love Vets again

All of that sounds right. I have had the same thoughts.

Except the "they have decided to love vets again".

I have been buying metal miniatures from Citadel for 30 years.
To be honest ... I'm gutted.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You think Timmy 12-Year-Old is gonna want to wash his models before he can start playing with them?

Sai-Lauren wrote:To discontinue individual models - whether because they're moving to a different material and you need to clear stocks out to avoid self-competition, or just because they've gone past their shelf life - is very different from shutting down the entire metals production side of the company for 3 months.

GW have done this a few times before whether by range or the entire product. They are not operating at full capacity currently. They will know what models sell slowly, which sell quick and how much stock is across their sales channels and at HQ. They will have ramped up production on some lines to tide them over, and stopped making others sometime last year (yes some things do sell that slow). In short I think you are selling them short on planning.

What this seems to suggest to me is GW are looking to sell through enough metal stock within 3 months to minimalise on the amount left in the system when they switch to resin. That also suggests that for whatever reason they expect the resin to be in more demand than the metal when its released. Read into that what you will.

The final thing is about resin dust. I can't see GW deliberately cutting off their kiddy market. Which means either they are seriously going to ramp up the plastics, and leave a few kits as resins that can only be sold to a certain age group, or they have a resin/resin process that won't cause this concern.
Or they have decided to love Vets again

sigur wrote:If that's true this means a massive change. I'm not convinced until we see any facts so let's see.

It is a HUGE change.
It is not an April fools joke. (I have known about it for a while it is just unfortunate timing for the rumour to break).
It is really happening.

mechanicalhorizon from Privateer Press wrote:If what I've been told is correct they are going to be spin-casting the resin using vulcanized silicone molds, the same molds used for metal casting just with a different cutting technique more suited to the flow of resin. We had in the past retrofitted some old molds for metal casting to test out resin casting and they worked fairly well, 3even better with some extra cutting.

So if GW is sticking with this method, and they probably are since spin casting resin is mostly the same as spin casting metal, it also uses much of the same equipment so there would be no extra set-up cost.

If this is correct than they can still use the existing masters to make new molds.

Even is they were to move towards an RTV-type material you could still use the existing masters to make new molds.

There really is no reason for GW to stop making any product because of a change in materials.

This is what I heard.

yabbadabba wrote:GW have done this a few times before whether by range or the entire product. They are not operating at full capacity currently. They will know what models sell slowly, which sell quick and how much stock is across their sales channels and at HQ. They will have ramped up production on some lines to tide them over, and stopped making others sometime last year (yes some things do sell that slow). In short I think you are selling them short on planning.

What this seems to suggest to me is GW are looking to sell through enough metal stock within 3 months to minimalise on the amount left in the system when they switch to resin. That also suggests that for whatever reason they expect the resin to be in more demand than the metal when its released. Read into that what you will.

The final thing is about resin dust. I can't see GW deliberately cutting off their kiddy market. Which means either they are seriously going to ramp up the plastics, and leave a few kits as resins that can only be sold to a certain age group, or they have a resin/resin process that won't cause this concern.
Or they have decided to love Vets again

All of that sounds right. I have had the same thoughts.

Except the "they have decided to love vets again".

I have been buying metal miniatures from Citadel for 30 years.
To be honest ... I'm gutted.

Ian Sturrock wrote:This gradual move to China for production -- does anyone know if GW has a clear ethical policy with regards to overseas production? You know, clear indications that they ensure any overseas factories allow worker organization/negotiation/unionization, pay a living wage, don't force staff to work unpaid overtime, allow days off, don't discriminate against women, etc.? I'm not willing to buy sweatshop-made goods, personally.

rtmonkeyboy wrote:My local store Manager told me yesterday that Forgeworld products would no longer be allowed to be made in store, in some stores not even painted!

The reasons given were thus:

1. Forgeworld were a "separate" and "competing" company!

2. The kits they produce were "too complicated" for younger gamers?

3. They weren't core product!

4. The dust from sanding was hazardous!

Harry wrote:

ghost21 wrote:not sure if its exactly a rumor but ive just been informed necrons will see the first of the resin figs

For 40K maybe but fantasy will see some first.(...)
I didn't choose my words very carefully. I meant fantasy will get something in resin before 40K.

Harry wrote:But if it helps ... metal is being replaced by resin, and it's being done at Lenton.(...)

For once I hope I am completely wrong and end up looking stupid for believing this.

But it is not just me saying this. I did not start this rumour and too many people (who are better informed than I am) have chimed in left right and center for me not to believe that this is happening.
(...)

Obviously this will be announced in a couple of months and even then after they stop metal production I imagine stuff will be available for a few more months whilst they shift remaining stocks. But what you don't get from GW (or wherever you get it from) in the next few months you will be left scrabbling around the interwebz trying to find it....and you will find it just like you can still pick up a copy of SpaceHulk. There will be pockets of metal all over the place for a while. You may even pick up some stuff cheap as indy retailers try to shift stocks. But some stuff will be hard to find. Especially recent metal ... as there will not be so much of that about.

I am sorry I have no words of comfort.

Archibald_TK wrote:At the beginning of the week we received an info from our GW national HQ that we shall not worry and the disappearing models will be once again available to independent retailers in the future in a "different format". As I said back there it means nothing and everything at the same time.

notprop wrote:I'm pretty sure it can in with a whole raft of legilation in the UK that also resulted in Lead free petrol (Gas) and other things.

I would be suprised if one case in NY resulted in such a drastic change in GW. (not saying it isn't true though)

BlackWidowPilot wrote:Well, for what it's worth to everyone, back in the Jurassic Era when this all took place I used to have a mail order retail business -Federation Armory- selling you guessed it, miniatures that contained *lead.*(...)

The plot thickened further afterwards when one of my regular customers – Mr. Dave Hornung- contacted me (or I him – 'twas looong ago now) and gave me a firsthand account of his actual testimony during the court hearing in which GAMA sought a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) against the specific NY state government agency that had issued the lead miniatures ban. According to Dave, he gave testimony as a *hobbyist,* even though he was a lead abatement expert employed by the state of New York (!!!).

Dave schooled me on the actual know risks of lead miniatures (ie., nil), and dirty NY politics (messy, as one might expect of *any* politically motivated ban ordered by an double-salaried environmental protection "czar" under fire for his double salary and close political relationship with then NY Governor Mario Cuomo…), and a reportedly messy NY divorce (soon to be ex-wife allegedly accused soon to be ex-husband of making their children ill from letting the kids play with dad's painted lead miniatures) that said NY environmental czar caught wind of and jumped on as a pretty transparent IMHO cynical attempt to deflect the heat over his big at-the-public-expense paycheck.

According to Dave the two lawyers representing the State of NY hadn't even prepared a case brief – guess they and their boss thought they had a really soft target, and were visibly shocked by all of the people who turned up to defend the industry and our hobby, including a legal team hired by GAMA, Dave, and other witnesses who could string a coherent sentence together and make a rational case for following real science and not politically-motivated pseudo-scientific grandstanding…

According to Dave, the two attorneys for the State of NY were badly rattled by the courtroom beat-down they received on the first day's hearing, so much so that their lack of preparation visibly wore the patience of the presiding judge very thin indeed…

On day two of the hearing the judge granted the request for a TRO, putting an end to the ban until further notice. Sadly, the damage had already been done, as one or more major distributors who decided discretion was the better part of valor, unilaterally declared that they would cease carrying lead-based miniatures. The ripple effect in the industry was considerable, but that's another story.


Leland R. Erickson
Grayhawk Studios

Sidstyler wrote:. No, resin is a little more fragile. Should be slightly easier to file/clean than metal models at least.

Lunchb0x wrote:On a side note I spoke to GW and GW corporate and both stated that they are not switching to resin, and this type of rumour happens every year as they go and make room for "floor" space for retail/gw stores for the new products and the other products are just moved to direct.

Praxiss wrote:Apparently GW has stopped shipping metal blisters out to even their own stores now and something "amazing" (quoting the manager from my local GW here) will be announced in May.