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I played a two on one today against GK. DE (me) and IG Vs. GK

The setup..
Objectives in deployment zones or whatever it's called
1250+1250 VS 2500
My list-
x2 Haemonculis, liquifiers
Two units of 9 wyches, shardnet, agoniser, raider with FF (duh)
x10 Trueborn, x2 cannon, x8 Carbines, raider with FF (needed something that was exactly 250 points)
x5 Trueborn, x2 cannon, x3 Carbines, double cannon venom
x3 Ravagers, FF

IG player's list
x1 CCS with 4 plasma?
x2 bare infantry blobs (to tie up units to get to objectives before them)
x2 Units of vets with plasma guns in chimeras with MLs
x3 LR Demolishers
x1 Armored sentinel with plasma cannon

His List... ugh

Two Land Raider Redeemers (or whatever the flamestorm ones are called)
One of them had... A techmarine and a champion...something in it. Plus a unit of Paladins (Dunno about these since they never disembarked)
The other had....
DRAIGO and 5 paladins, one of which was a apothecary, and another was a banner guy, plus a hammer dude.

Psy-Rifleman dreadnought
Vindicare Assassin
2x10 interecptors (or something that was in a rhino with two psycannons)

We did...Horrible. Draigo slaughtered his way through an entire blob CHOICE before being eventually tamed by mass dark lance fire and dozens of splinter fire, but his land raider runied everything that was left of my unit on the objective.... ugh.

The paladins were unstoppable, with two wounds, feel no pain and a 5+ Invul, plus a bunch of psychic shooting attacks and junk at their disposal. Horrifying. Totally worth the 300 some points he paid, I'm sure.

Despite our obvious advantage of demolishers and mass dark lance fire, plus all kinds of plasma floating around, we still barely even managed to cause any wounds against these monsters. I'm truly afraid of Grey Knights. I can't explain that enough. If DE and IG (one of the two most versatile and imo, powerful armies in the game) can't best them.. What chance do Tau, Chaos Marines, Orks, etc have against them? Our marginal win wouldn't have been possible without Dark Lances (We did win, but he more or less tabled us, so I consider it a loss) and Plasma.

This probably belongs in the Battle Reports section, but I also want to know how other players are faring against GK so far, so I guess it can stay? :3

OH! I'm sure some of you are wondering why I ran Splinterborn rather than Blasterborn.... I figured I'd be over to overwhelm his models, but I didn't count on double wound terminators

Yeahhhh this doesn't make fear gk. Your ig friend ran a crap list

So you managed to kill draigo yet had problems with paladins? 0_o

Ive found paladins arent much of an issue.
draigo on the other hand can be a pain in the arse to kill at time.

Since i mainly run daemons, i now tend to simply flood them with power weapons and hope that the sheer weight of attacks brings them down quickly.
So far the only real hold up is the stave thing.
2++ in combat is a pain in the arse when i rely on CC to get things done.
However, they will fail a save from time to time.



all in all though, i thought they would be alot stronger than they were.
Only huge issue i had was not reading the book before i played against them for the 1st time.

Just a case of getting the assaults in your favour.
Considering the points cost for them, im not all that worried.
He has 5 paladins, for the same price i get 20 bloodletters.

Yeah, that IG list was... questionable. IG infantry thrives on its special and heavy weapons-- any barebones blobs are just there to protect various vehicles... which the IG list had didn't have much of (LR Demolishers, while powerful, are the least ideal unit to protect with infantry blobs due ot their short range).

I saw a game at the local GW store a few days ago where a largish group of paladins basically walked through an entire CSM army.

I still don't know if I'm sold on them for a competitive list though, since the things which tend to really scare my terminators (like demo cannons) make no distinction between paladins and terminators.

I don't see what's so scary about Paladins when you have three Demolishers. FnP and 2 wounds mean nothing when you're hitting them with strength 10 AP2 shells. This should have been pretty cut and dry with lances blowing up the raiders and demolishers smashing the squishy insides. That IG list needs some work though.

I kind of thought his list was silly, but neither him nor I knew what we were up against, so I can't blame him for trying I can't say the loss is entirely his fault, because the GK player popped every single paper plane of mine without even trying (The rifleman, and numerous psycannons floating around ).

Aside from GK in particular... The was the first game I've gone up against a Redeemer.... Ugh. That vehicle makes me ache with pain... :3

Samus, i run 3 redeemers in my BA if you want a game?
Also got 3 Baal preds with flamestorms too.

Jackal wrote:Samus, i run 3 redeemers in my BA if you want a game?
Also got 3 Baal preds with flamestorms too.

YOU are the bane of my existence Flamestorm Cannons are more or less one of the best weapons in the game, IMO. If the Strength isn't enough to kill you, the AP probably is. Oh, and they're mounted on the 'ardest vehicles in the game

They are a double edged sword though mate.

Against high AV you might aswell forget them, and against anything with decent mobility you wont get close enough.

Ive allways had to rely on the MM they have for armour, or the units inside doing the damage.

On the plus side, PoTMS lets me park between 2 different units and fire one flamestorm at each

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Despite our obvious advantage of demolishers and mass dark lance fire, plus all kinds of plasma floating around, we still barely even managed to cause any wounds against these monsters. I'm truly afraid of Grey Knights. I can't explain that enough. If DE and IG (one of the two most versatile and imo, powerful armies in the game) can't best them.. What chance do Tau, Chaos Marines, Orks, etc have against them? Our marginal win wouldn't have been possible without Dark Lances (We did win, but he more or less tabled us, so I consider it a loss) and Plasma.

As a Tau player, I'm not particularly impressed with GK. Maybe they have some neat tricks I haven't quite got yet, but from my perspective, they are like Marines except bit worse in everything. So apparently they have mass Force weapons? Oh no! Because my Fire Warriors will totally win combat against Marines if it wasn't those Force weapons.

OK, teleporting Dreadknights could be scary, at least if there are more than one of them, as Tau kinda suck against monstrous creatures.

Ok i was worried that they would be invincible.

I'm confused. You put down draigo, but couldn't take down 2 Land Raiders using dark lances? He had a 300 point unit of Paladins that never even debarked? And you lost?

2000 point Pitch Battle / Kill Points

Game went to turn five and we drew. Game would of been a draw on turn 6 too.

Farsight had a fireknife army and one shotted 2 regular squads and a dreadknight with his retinue alone, rockin 16 plasma shots in doubletap range.

However, I have zero doubts that had I run a standard Tau force he would of tabled me.

Paladins are a whole new level of threat.

We are going to rematch soon hopefully and I'm actually pretty excited. Elite Army vs Elite Army is a fun, fast and nerve wracking game to say the least.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Backfire wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Despite our obvious advantage of demolishers and mass dark lance fire, plus all kinds of plasma floating around, we still barely even managed to cause any wounds against these monsters. I'm truly afraid of Grey Knights. I can't explain that enough. If DE and IG (one of the two most versatile and imo, powerful armies in the game) can't best them.. What chance do Tau, Chaos Marines, Orks, etc have against them? Our marginal win wouldn't have been possible without Dark Lances (We did win, but he more or less tabled us, so I consider it a loss) and Plasma.

As a Tau player, I'm not particularly impressed with GK. Maybe they have some neat tricks I haven't quite got yet, but from my perspective, they are like Marines except bit worse in everything. So apparently they have mass Force weapons? Oh no! Because my Fire Warriors will totally win combat against Marines if it wasn't those Force weapons.

OK, teleporting Dreadknights could be scary, at least if there are more than one of them, as Tau kinda suck against monstrous creatures.

Oh they have tricks man... just glancing through a Grey Knight dex puts it into perspective. Make no mistake, with Tau if they fall short there losses can be devastaing. But Dreadknights can easily close the distance on a gunline and proceed to absorb a gunlines attention while an unstoppable force advances elsewhere.

Meant to say a bit more earlier, now I shall expand on it.

IG player's list

x1 CCS with 4 plasma

So...he's running infantry blobs, so orders might be used. But he's footslogging, and his entire retinue is using guns that are both expensive and have the means of wiping him out before the enemy does.

x2 bare infantry blobs (to tie up units to get to objectives before them)

I guess there isn't too much wrong with this. I think if he wanted to go blob then he would need more then just two. On top of that, they are stock troops with no upgrades. Passable at ranged with enough shots, near trash in melee, and melee was the intention. Yeah...

x2 Units of vets with plasma guns in chimeras with MLs

This isn't such a bad choice. I'd prefer melta over plasma, but that's just me. The missle launcher is slowed though. If they move, they can't shoot, and if they don't move, auto hits against the chimera in CC.

x3 LR Demolishers

Hmmm, this I'm not sure of. I usually roll with battle tanks, but that's just me. Makes me wonder if he tried to build this list around fighting GK. It would explain the plasma spam.

x1 Armored sentinel with plasma cannon

Sentinels are best left in scout form, with autocannons.

I don't have my codex on hand, but I'm pretty sure with some slight changed he could have easily made the list more potent. However I guess this is a worthless thing to look into, because he's not the one who started this thread so constructive criticism on his list will fall on deaf ears.

Gah! Don't tell me how good Paladins+Draigo are since I haven't bought any of those - I'm running a purifier list and don't want to feel like I made the wrong choice lol!

Anyway, you had a tough game but you still won. And as predicted before GK were even released, a Paladin list lost to lots of high strength weaponry. It seems that not only do they lose to this in theory but also in reality, phew!

Now I'm thinking I'm glad I'm not sinking 855 points (Draigo, Landraider, 5 Paladins with one Apothecary upgrade and no weapons upgrades) into a unit that will take up half my army and be a HUGE target and die to exactly what everybody said it would.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:2000 point Pitch Battle / Kill Points

Game went to turn five and we drew. Game would of been a draw on turn 6 too.

Farsight had a fireknife army and one shotted 2 regular squads and a dreadknight with his retinue alone, rockin 16 plasma shots in doubletap range.

However, I have zero doubts that had I run a standard Tau force he would of tabled me.

Paladins are a whole new level of threat.

I have to say I don't quite understand what's so scary about Paladins. It seems to me they are roughly as durable as Nob bikers, except slower and more expensive. I'm sure that if the list doesn't have right weapons against them, they can be unstoppable, but they can also be a huge points sink...

They have so many goodies its scary. Librarian has a Summoning power that teleports any unit within 6" (even vehicles if they are equipped with Warp Stabilizers) which means a LRC filled with Draigo and Paladins land on the front lines.

Anything is couterable, but it will take many by surprise for awhile......

Backfire wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:2000 point Pitch Battle / Kill Points

Game went to turn five and we drew. Game would of been a draw on turn 6 too.

Farsight had a fireknife army and one shotted 2 regular squads and a dreadknight with his retinue alone, rockin 16 plasma shots in doubletap range.

However, I have zero doubts that had I run a standard Tau force he would of tabled me.

Paladins are a whole new level of threat.

I have to say I don't quite understand what's so scary about Paladins. It seems to me they are roughly as durable as Nob bikers, except slower and more expensive. I'm sure that if the list doesn't have right weapons against them, they can be unstoppable, but they can also be a huge points sink...

I guess the reason I view them as such a threat is because with my list I tend to walk through normal termis. Paladins being multiwound has a nasty effect when I watch a bunch of hits land only to watch a single model get removed and another take a wound when it would of been 3 regular termis dying...

Thats just my list though, I'm sure a CC army wouldn't worry about a few Paladins if they had something to counter but I play Tau haha

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
I guess the reason I view them as such a threat is because with my list I tend to walk through normal termis. Paladins being multiwound has a nasty effect when I watch a bunch of hits land only to watch a single model get removed and another take a wound when it would of been 3 regular termis dying...

Thats just my list though, I'm sure a CC army wouldn't worry about a few Paladins if they had something to counter but I play Tau haha

Well, torrent of small arms fire which works well against normal Termies won't work so great against Paladins, yes...but OTOH, melta shot will instant-kill an expensive Paladin. They're so pricey that it's even worth shooting Railguns at them. A Tau list has to be able to deal with stuff like Ork Nobz/Meganobz anyway, and much of the same should work against Paladins. Too bad we don't have anything like Demolisher cannons...

Sentinels are best left in scout form, with autocannons.

On the contrary, plascan armored sentinels are pretty good for their price. But you shouldn't ever just take the one... you need to have several of them, just one mobile plasma cannon isn't necessarily gonna change the tide of the game.

But six might.

Da-Rock wrote:They have so many goodies its scary. Librarian has a Summoning power that teleports any unit within 6" (even vehicles if they are equipped with Warp Stabilizers) which means a LRC filled with Draigo and Paladins land on the front lines.

Anything is couterable, but it will take many by surprise for awhile......

Well I realized, reading again a couple of entries, that the summoning isn't that good actually. It uses true DS rules, with a couple of exceptions... Servo skulls and teleport homers DON'T (at least, RAW) reduce the scatter distance. So you are teleporting a unit within 6" of your librarian, with a full 2d6" scatter distance. There is NOTHING that could go wrong =/

So you ran sub-par lists, failed to prioritise targets correctly, and are surprised when you lose?

The Ravagers should have shredded the LR in Turn 1. Period. So that's Draigo and two units of Paladins walking. Are you seriously trying to tell me that with 3 x Demolishers (which he can only hurt with rending rolls) that you weren't unable to insta-gib T4 5++ models? Sorry mate, this isn't so much 'GK are OP' so much as you and your buddy utterly failing to create and adhere to a simple strategy.

Or maybe the dice failed on you, what do I know...

L. Wrex

Melissia wrote:

Sentinels are best left in scout form, with autocannons.

On the contrary, plascan armored sentinels are pretty good for their price. But you shouldn't ever just take the one... you need to have several of them, just one mobile plasma cannon isn't necessarily gonna change the tide of the game.

But six might.

Yes, I agree. He had 95 points left, and we couldn't figure out what to take, so I suggested this. In retrospect, 3 of them would've been nice instead of a demolisher.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:So you ran sub-par lists, failed to prioritise targets correctly, and are surprised when you lose?

The Ravagers should have shredded the LR in Turn 1. Period. So that's Draigo and two units of Paladins walking. Are you seriously trying to tell me that with 3 x Demolishers (which he can only hurt with rending rolls) that you weren't unable to insta-gib T4 5++ models? Sorry mate, this isn't so much 'GK are OP' so much as you and your buddy utterly failing to create and adhere to a simple strategy.

Or maybe the dice failed on you, what do I know...

L. Wrex

Wow, that's really nice of you to just assume everything

I actually immobilized and destroyed the assault cannons on BOTH of his Land raiders by the second turn but he used some techmarine thing to fix them up next turn. So I DID actually cause serious damage. If the techmarine wasn't there, the game would have been ours with foot slogging terminators halfwat across the board.

By T5, I already had a unit of wyches camped on his objective, and about thirty guardsmen on ours, plus another unit of wyches! Draigo literally plowed right through them, and eventually got to our objective. Then we killed him with mass plasma fire.

My ravagers got blown up around the fourth turn, after they had been ganging up on terminators the whoie game. IMO, the terminators were a bigger threat at the time.

Backfire wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
I guess the reason I view them as such a threat is because with my list I tend to walk through normal termis. Paladins being multiwound has a nasty effect when I watch a bunch of hits land only to watch a single model get removed and another take a wound when it would of been 3 regular termis dying...

Thats just my list though, I'm sure a CC army wouldn't worry about a few Paladins if they had something to counter but I play Tau haha

Well, torrent of small arms fire which works well against normal Termies won't work so great against Paladins, yes...but OTOH, melta shot will instant-kill an expensive Paladin. They're so pricey that it's even worth shooting Railguns at them. A Tau list has to be able to deal with stuff like Ork Nobz/Meganobz anyway, and much of the same should work against Paladins. Too bad we don't have anything like Demolisher cannons...

The nice deal with Pallys is that they fit in an odd slot compared to other termis.

Massed small arms from FWs will do little with a 2 up save.

Concentrated Rail Shots will be overkill and not get enough knocked out.

So I have to rely on massed Plasma Fire from Farsight and his bodyguards. Which at 8 pops and 16 if I hop forward is usually enough for most termis. Pallys on the other hand prove most enduring to the withering fire, even if it forces an invuln. Melta, as nice as it is, would cripple my suits long range capabilites since I run M-Pods and Plasma for most Marine builds.

GKs really have a list that can force you into an awkward playstyle if played correctly. Which makes sense, they are the Grey Knights, you are supposed to fight them on their terms and they certainly have ways of making you haha

Yep. Despit the hideous fluff, the rules at least are growing on me, like most fifth edition rules have done.

Melissia wrote:

Sentinels are best left in scout form, with autocannons.

On the contrary, plascan armored sentinels are pretty good for their price. But you shouldn't ever just take the one... you need to have several of them, just one mobile plasma cannon isn't necessarily gonna change the tide of the game.

But six might.

Interesting...I've always sort of liked sentinels, but they always seemed so fragile to me. Instead of two sporting plasma, I'd rather have a valkyrie with multi missle pods (really rather have a vendetta but that's not the best comparison). Besides scout sentinels with autacannons for popping transports, the only other use I've heard people using them for is running completely naked into infantry as a CC tar pit. On top of tar pitting you've got the sentinel bomb, which pretty much revolves around the 1/3 chance upon getting a penetrating hit to blow up and shower everyone around it with lasgun shots.

Meh, valks are boring, and they're even bigger targets (and less durable) than two armored sentinels.

Melissia wrote:Meh, valks are boring, and they're even bigger targets (and less durable) than two armored sentinels.

Especially since they die on a 4,5 or 6, like paper planes

Samus_aran115 wrote:Wow, that's really nice of you to just assume everything

I actually immobilized and destroyed the assault cannons on BOTH of his Land raiders by the second turn but he used some techmarine thing to fix them up next turn. So I DID actually cause serious damage. If the techmarine wasn't there, the game would have been ours with foot slogging terminators halfwat across the board.

By T5, I already had a unit of wyches camped on his objective, and about thirty guardsmen on ours, plus another unit of wyches! Draigo literally plowed right through them, and eventually got to our objective. Then we killed him with mass plasma fire.

My ravagers got blown up around the fourth turn, after they had been ganging up on terminators the whoie game. IMO, the terminators were a bigger threat at the time.

The complete lack of tangible information in your OP almost demanded that I make assumptions on what you/your opponent's moves were. If you don't make anything clear in the OP other than 'Oh wow guys, Grey Knights are such BEASTS! I'd hate to play them again, look how much damage they did!' you don't leave me much to go on do you?

That being said, it seems that you did do a fair bit of target prioritising but got unlucky at key moments in the game. This doesn't make GK anymore difficult to beat than any other army.

L. Wrex