Plasma Siphon

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**jab4962**

Does it affect the IG executioner tank? The codex says "plasma weapons(including plasma pistols, plasman guns, and plasma cannons)" but i was unsure as to if the vehicle is affected.

**Galador**

Is it a plasma weapon??? If so, then yes, as the including part is simply referencing examples of plasma weapons, not listing all of them.

**jab4962**

My hangup was that because there is no "plasma" type weapon, some could take advantage, especially since IG is what i end up facing a good portion of the time.

**Galador**

The executioner rule states that it uses Plasma technology, its cannon is called a Plasma Cannon, and it fires plasma bursts.

Anyone that turns around and tries to tell you its not a plasma weapon, I would never play them, cause they obviously lack the mental capacity to read, so that means they only know their rules by someone telling it to them!

Edit: If also states plasma cannons as one of the examples, so they are screwed before they even try, as its even called a plasma cannon in their own codex, so nope, no way to exploit that one.

**Jaon**

What about tau plasma rifles? RAW, they are not listed. Names mean little, so how do you play it?

**Galador**

Jaon wrote:What about tau plasma rifles? RAW, they are not listed. Names mean little, so how do you play it?

Names may mean little, but the ones that are listed are precluded in the parentheses by the word including, which says to me at least that they put that there so if you have a GK or Inquisitor with a plasma pistol standing within 12" of the siphon, they suffer just like all others, becasue it doesn't say any enemy firing one, it says models. So it is all inclusive for that.

Seeing as the ones listed are being shown ot be included in, I would honestly say anything with the word plasma in its name and /or description or rules as being effected.

Here's one for you to answer: What about Disintegrator Cannons for DE?? It states in the fluff before the profile on page 56 that it fires a particle of unstable matter harnessed from a stolen sun. It then goes on to say it is more sophisticated than conventional plasma based weaponry. So does it fit into the plasma weapon description because of that???

Or is it only anything with the word "plasma" in its name?

**Sanguinis**

This is beggining to sound like the Daemon argument.

Anything with the word Plasma in the name is affected. It uses the word including when giving examples. Again GW assumes we have enough intelligence to figure out what is Plasma and what isn't they are simply giving examples because if they didn't every moron that played 40K would be like, "This weapon doesn't affect anything cause they didn't give examples blah blah blah."

I hate these arguments, if it says Plasma in the name then it's Plasma no argument. Yes that includes Tau Plasma Rifles.

Galador said: Here's one for you to answer: What about Disintegrator Cannons for DE?? It states in the fluff before the profile on page 56 that it fires a particle of unstable matter harnessed from a stolen sun. It then goes on to say it is more sophisticated than conventional plasma based weaponry. So does it fit into the plasma weapon description because of that???

I would say the answer to your question is no. While I am of the type that would say anything with the name Plasma is affected I also understand that Fluff =/= Rules. Also, even if Fluff equaled Rules it still wouldn't be affected because even though it says it's a Plasma weapon it says it is a more sophisticated Plasma weapon that is taken from a dying sun (in Cammoragh) so therefore the device probably wouldn't affect it because of it's sophistication and the fact that it is harnessed sun Plasma rather than created Plasma.

Oh and before many of you jump on me and say, "Well Tau Plasma is more sophisticated so wouldn't it be unnaffected too?" Your correct it might be more sophisticated but in the Tau Plasma Rifle description it says Tau use a smaller charge and less energy than Imperial weapons but it is still the same Plasma technology the Imperium uses just set on a "safer" level, hence the Str 6.

**Chrysis**

I think the problem then becomes what about the weapons that are plasma weapons, but don't have plasma in their name. The Eldar Starcannon is definitely a plasma weapon, so probably should be effected.

But a large number of Tau weapons are also plasma or plasma related, like the Pulse weapons and Burst Cannon. At what point do you draw the line between what is and isn't effected?

**Galador**

Chrysis wrote:I think the problem then becomes what about the weapons that are plasma weapons, but don't have plasma in their name. The Eldar Starcannon is definitely a plasma weapon, so probably should be effected.

But a large number of Tau weapons are also plasma or plasma related, like the Pulse weapons and Burst Cannon. At what point do you draw the line between what is and isn't effected?

Don't forget the plasma missiles of the Eldar also.

But here is the real question.... How often are yougoing to even see it on the board. I just scanned the Army list and there is literally 1, 1!! person that can take it, and that is the ordo xenos Inquisitor!!! The only Inquisitor that can't take termie armor is the only one that can take the siphon!! And with only a 12" range, it would do them more harm than good honestly!!! So I highly doubt you will be seeing it on the board much, if at all!!

**juraigamer**

Are we going off of fluff now to dictate how rules work?

There is no "Plasma" weapon. The only thing even close to that is a weapon that "Gets hot"

The rule itself lists three weapons, those three weapons are effected and nothing else.

Just because a weapon has plasma in the name doesn't mean is a plasma weapon by the rules, since there are no rules what so ever that tell us what a plasma weapon is.

This damn codex is full of bogus nonsense, were my faq at GW!

**Galador**

juraigamer wrote:
The rule itself lists three weapons, those three weapons are effected and nothing else.

Actually, the rule states "including" for those three weapons, so that means there are more than just those 3 weapons.

And really, if something has plasma in its name, are you really going to say it doesn't count because it has no type called plasma?? Cause if you want to go that way, the BRB states that "all weapons are classified as either Assault, Rapid Fire, Heavy, Ordnanace, or Pistol. These rules are a measure of the weapons Portability and affect the way it can be fired in relation to the models movement during that turn's Movement Phase."

So the "Type" of weapon is not what kind of weapon it is, it is how it can be fired depending on movement. Plasma is not a weapon "type", nor does the "type" mean anything for what kind of weapon it actually is. So you have to go off the name, is the best way to do it, IMHO. Since type doesn't determine what a weapon is, but if it has Plasma in the name, common sense tells me its a Plasma weapon.

**chromedog**

Common sense seems to be in short supply with many of GWs gaming community.

I blame society. It's been in rather short supply for the last generation or so.

**juraigamer**

Galador wrote: if it has Plasma in the name, common sense tells me its a Plasma weapon.

I would like to point out common sense doesn't = rules.

So you would state bioplasma is effected? Bogus.

This is a horribly written rule, any and all arguments for it effecting weapons other than the three listed are subject to the same discussion about what is a "Demon"

**Galador**

juraigamer wrote:
Galador wrote: if it has Plasma in the name, common sense tells me its a Plasma weapon.

I would like to point out common sense doesn't = rules.

So you would state bioplasma is effected? Bogus.

This is a horribly written rule, any and all arguments for it effecting weapons other than the three listed are subject to the same discussion about what is a "Demon"

Your forgetting the word directly before those three weapons....

and no I wouldn't state that bioplasma is effected, because its not plasma in its name, its bioplasma. Once again, common sense and comprehension should tell a halfway intelligent gamer(not saying your not, just stating the point) what is and is not a plasma weapon.

LRBT Executioner Plasma Cannon? Plasma weapon.
Plasma missile? Plasma weapon.
Lasgun? Not a Plasma weapon.
Venom Cannon? Not a plasma weapon.

But as you said, common sense doesn't equal rules, it simply equals a logical approach to the rules that some WAAC players must bend and twist until there is no enjoyment left in the game. But that is there issue, not mine, because I honestly don't ever see this being brought to the field unless someone is purposefully trying to handicap their own army.