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Hello again folks. So I have been contemplating what army to build next once my Orks are done, and I am leaning heavily toward one of the Eldar races (so far, a little more toward the good guys if you could call them that). The army that most interests me is a Jetseer Council/Saim-Hann type list. Now this poses a couple of problems for me: Lots of conversion (which is fine), and lots of money (not so fine), because in a Jetseer army as you may know, you must spend a metric gak-ton of money to field all those jetbikes.

One night as I was looking at the Jetbike model and thinking of how I don't like some parts of the aesthetics of them, I thought of how much cooler the DE Reaver Jetbikes look and it hit me: How about if I used those Reaver jetbikes to make a fluffly "Redeemed" Jetseer List? BRILLIANT! I'll get cool looking bikes which I can do some conversion work on, or not, put a bunch of Eldar on there, and viola, I've saved some money and they look wicked. The Eldar Jetbikes come 1 in a box for 15.00, whereas the DE Jetbikes come 3 in a box for 35.00.

Now the main question here is for all you curators of fluff out there: Would this work fluff-wise? I wanted to build the fluff around it saying these are Eldar who had once fallen and become Dark Eldar, and have since been redeemed, and have stolen a few cool, spiky jetbikes from their dark, junky brethren.

If the gurus of fluff could give me some more background to validate this setup, or some advice that could steer me in the right direction with giving this army some good fluff, that would be much appreciated. Such as how the previously fallen could be redeemed again, how they could decide they were wrong in their mind and be saved (or would some Eldar Farseer specifically have to set out and redeem them - perhaps I can make it so the Farseer was the only unfallen one who went and redeemed his Warlock council who had fallen, along with all the other Guardian jetbikers?)

Thanks in advance!

I don't think once they "fall" they come back.

But Dark Eldar, born within the Dark Eldar realms, can eventually become tolerated within the Craftworlds.

There was a Striking Scorpion that was redeemed in the book Path of the Warrior. He was a Dark Eldar and was forbidden to ever speak on the Alaitoc Craftworld. He just showed up with the exarch one day.

Erudog wrote:Now the main question here is for all you curators of fluff out there: Would this work fluff-wise? I wanted to build the fluff around it saying these are redeemed Eldar who had once fallen and become Dark Eldar, and have since been redeemed, and have stolen a few cool, spiky jetbikes from their dark, junky brethren.

Your single biggest problem is probably logicistics and maintenance. Who's going to be taking care of these bikes, and where are they getting the spare parts from?

Once you deal with that problem, the riders themselves don't really matter all that much. Given that we're talking about Saim-Hann here, it probably wouldn't be out of the question for a group of riders to have "acquired" the bikes themselves somehow (either by buying them - you could definitely find at least a few dark eldar who would happily sell their bikes to other eldar for an extreme mark-up - or by stealing/salvaging them), and there are probably members of the craftworld who will happily customize their bikes. So the odd appearence wouldn't be that big of an issue. The only real issue is how difficult it would be to maintain the things.

The craftworld jetbike is a variant of the DE jetbike and probably ready and just waiting for a fitting release date:


BTW the next Imperial Armour book presents the Eldar Corsairs, who use both Craftworld and Dark Eldar vehicles and stuff.

Very interesting suggestions guys, thanks.

@Kanluwen: You say Dark Eldar born within the DE worlds CAN eventually become accepted/tolerated in the Craftworlds? What about once fallen Eldar? Is there a difference?

@RVNGR: Very interesting! This idea can contribute to my own fluff greatly. Thanks.

@Eumerin: Would that really be a problem though? Don't both races use almost exactly the same technology when it comes to their vehicles? (Anti-Grav, etc.) I know DE do all sorts of body modification/drugs/experiments but I figured their vehicles function on the same sort of technology. Yeah, I like the idea of modded Eldar bikes (MOAR BUBBLEZ)

@Kroothawk: That looks a lot better I think. Is that what people are speculating is part of the new line of plastics that will come out with the new Eldar codex (whenever that will be - probably a while), or is that a FW model?

There's just not too much fluff on this specific subject, but I'm going off a supposition.

A Dark Eldar born within the realm of the Dark Eldar doesn't really get a choice of his upbringing.

An Eldar who abandons the Path in order to become what, to the rest of the Eldar, a monster? He'd likely be looked at as something to be killed, while the Dark Eldar are something to be pitied.

Well there are certain factions that view the Eldar race as shattered pieces of a whole race rather than 2 separate entities. (Harlequins)

While the two races come into conflict they have also fought with each other. (DE defending Iyanden from orks)

A quote from the DE codex by a craftworld farseer stating how the Eldar who died in the fall were the "lucky ones" holds an air of pity for the race as a whole.

I think its simply a matter of the two Eldar factions choosing 2 polar opposite survival strategies.

So I feel it would be possible. But it would be more akin to a "religious conversion" rather than a redemption or exorcism. Both factions of Eldar are in survival mode whether they like it or not if a Farseer could convince DE that the "paths" were a better option than the Kabals or Cults I dont see why it wouldn't be possible.

Their reception once brought to the craftworld might be less than welcoming by the population but that can be worked out in your fluff.

Erudog wrote:@Eumerin: Would that really be a problem though? Don't both races use almost exactly the same technology when it comes to their vehicles? (Anti-Grav, etc.) I know DE do all sorts of body modification/drugs/experiments but I figured their vehicles function on the same sort of technology. Yeah, I like the idea of modded Eldar bikes (MOAR BUBBLEZ)

Equivalent technology just means that you can understand the basics of how the equipment operates. Actually getting the parts is another matter entirely.

As an example, assume that you've got a Ford Mustang. You visit Japan, and a critical part suddenly breaks, so you go to the local Toyota dealership to find a replacement.

That might not work as well as you'd hoped...


It's not impossible by any means, but parts will need to be custom-made. It's not too bad of an issue if you have ready access to a machine shop (or the eldar equivalent) and don't have to compete with anyone else for time. But on a long military campaign it could turn into a serious problem as your initial supply of spare parts runs out and you have no ready access to more of them.

Erudog wrote:@Kroothawk: That looks a lot better I think. Is that what people are speculating is part of the new line of plastics that will come out with the new Eldar codex (whenever that will be - probably a while), or is that a FW model?

That is the prototype for both Craftworld and Dark Eldar jetbikes, as you can see by comparing the DE model.
It is for GW, plastic and could be released anytime, as a second wave or with a Codex.

And don't forget my remark about Corsairs. Either read the Codex entry or wait for IA11. They are what you have in mind if you don't want to wait for the new Craftworld jetbike or convert it.

You could have them as a group of Rangers, who are said to even search for the 'dark city' (obviously Commoragh) during their adventures. It also says that Rangers in time return to their craftworld, or fight for it when needed. Rangers would use bikes to get around i feel, and their time amongst their dark cousins gives them to opportunity to use different style ones than those of craftworld origin.

And if they aren't accepted by their kin again? who gives a damn, they're badass wanderers on flying bikes.

You should remove some of the spikes and Dark Eldar designs to represent the change of the Eldar’s ways. Splicing both Eldar and Dark Eldar parts also works well. The Eldar could be forbidden to speak and could be silent for many years before they overcome the evil in their souls under the command of the Craftworld. They have promised to fight for Saim Hann for 1000 years against the Great enemy for their crimes.

I am meh on that, but its your list. You should be aware though that there's not reason you can't cannibalize the new DE list for minis/models and parts. I'd be particularly partial to the troopers for guardians or Dire Avengers, the skimmers for jetbikes, and the incubus for striking scorpions.

@Kanluwen: Yeah that makes complete sense.

@alspal8me: That helps further solidify the idea Kan presented. The religious conversion bit seems interesting...perhaps I can incorporate that somehow.

@Eumerin: Fair enough, I see your point.

@Kroothawk: Hmmm....well I'll be waiting a while anyway. I'm doing the preliminary list building and testing right now. Perhaps that will give me enough time to see if a second wave comes out, maybe even a new codex (doubtful though).

@Sphynx: Well then they wouldn't be part of Saim-Hann would they? Rangers don't really follow that path do they?

@blood reaper: Yeah I was planning to customize the models a bit and make it more like a crossover.

@Frazzled: I wouldn't take it that far, only the bikes I would use DE models as they are just objects, rather than actual spiky DE troops.


Reading through the Eldar codex, I noticed that in the Saim-Hann section it explains that the Saim Hann were one of the first to abandon the homeworlds as the fall approached. Their ways are seen as barbarous by other Eldar as they perform blood rituals and things of that sort. Seems very Dark Eldar-y to me. That can help the fluff even more. Perhaps I can say that as one of the first to abandon their homeworld, they were brought back by a Farseer who felt he could redeem them and perhaps have them accepted back into the Craftworlds after their silence was paid. I've gotta think about it more.

I dont think the DE and Eldar hate each other, more just an uneasy truce. Not the enemy, just the alternative.
DE have come to the rescue of Iyadeen just cause they think its funny how they lament the wraith necromancy.

Harlequins visit Commoragh on a regular basis, and fight on both sides. Genetically they are all the same, and making babies means more eldar. Who says the harlequins didn't convince some dark eldar to aid their craftworld due to the fact craftworlds come under attack more often then the webway. This battle lust could drive some cults to want to fight just to fight.

Maybe they want to get soul stones so they will be safe from She Who Thirsts instead of raping and pillaging to stave off the inevitable.

Another thing is that maybe those sick deranged perverts want to try baby making with a chick who screams into your mind as she stabs you in the arm.

As far as modeling, I would put craftworld colors on the DE bikes, showing their repentance and acceptance into the Eldar.

Dr. Serling wrote:I dont think the DE and Eldar hate each other, more just an uneasy truce. Not the enemy, just the alternative.
DE have come to the rescue of Iyadeen just cause they think its funny how they lament the wraith necromancy.

Truce is a very strong word to use. If the Dark Eldar aren't attacking you, it's because they believe that they can obtain more suffering by letting you live (for the moment). The only ones who seem to get a pass from the Dark Eldar are the Harlequins

daveNYC wrote:

Dr. Serling wrote:I dont think the DE and Eldar hate each other, more just an uneasy truce. Not the enemy, just the alternative.
DE have come to the rescue of Iyadeen just cause they think its funny how they lament the wraith necromancy.

Truce is a very strong word to use. If the Dark Eldar aren't attacking you, it's because they believe that they can obtain more suffering by letting you live (for the moment). The only ones who seem to get a pass from the Dark Eldar are the Harlequins

Yes and no. While the Dark Eldar will happily pillage and kidnap Craftworld Eldar, there still seems to be an understanding that Craftworld Eldar are still Eldar. If there's a significant threat to an important craftworld (such as the Iyanden example), then the Dark Eldar may very well turn up unexpected to assist.

And the Craftworld Eldar are more than happy to take advantage of their cousins' dark tendencies. The story is told of an Imperial Governor who was collecting soulstones. The Craftworlders had him kidnapped by the Harlequins and turned over to the Dark Eldar.

In short, both groups despise the other. But there's still an understanding that they're all Eldar, and in certain matters (generally involving outsiders) "family" comes first.

Saim-Hann are barbarians, not cultists. Blood rituals do not necessarily involve sacrifice nor torture. If the excessively conservative Alaitoc tolerate the Saim-Hann, then they can not be too far off the beaten track, after all.

XxRVNGRDxX wrote:There was a Striking Scorpion that was redeemed in the book Path of the Warrior. He was a Dark Eldar and was forbidden to ever speak on the Alaitoc Craftworld. He just showed up with the exarch one day.

There is a greater significance to the Dark Eldar warrior in Path of the Warrior than that, he was a Dark Eldar Incubi who was defeated by Striking Scorpions and somehow managed to avoid execution. Incubi are some of the more detested and loathed Dark Eldar warriors, partly because the Incubi are nearly more so lost to the rage of Khaine than exarchs. The more lowly Dark Eldar citizens aren't quite as much anathema and much effort is put into guiding them to the paths.

---

It's just a pity they had to go so overboard with the fluff and make the Eldar race even more divided than it had to be (thinking especially on the Incubi fluff), seeing how they've now mostly squandered the whole rivalling brothers deal they could've made and essentially settled back on Warhammer Fantasy In Space sort of deal. Dark Elves hating High Elves - in space.

You could always make them corsairs? warriors who have fallen to the path of the wanderer like rangers, doesn't mean they have to be rangers and they can do whatever they please, even say, do a few jobs for an archon and get paid in reaver jet bikes? I think this could work, plus corsairs are awesome!

I hope FW release some more kits

It has been stated some Eldar leave the craftworlds looking for adventure and glory and create small Eldar warbands. I would not be surprised to see Dark Eldar and Eldar forces being united in such a warband. Im not sure exactly what they are called but I know for a fact some Eldar do this.