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At the FW Open Day I picked up a box of the new GK Terminators for two reasons: 1: I love the new models for these guys, and 2: They had sold out of PAGK and I didn't want to leave empty handed having spend 6 hours travelling there. Anyway, I've been thinking about how to incorporate them into a list I have prepared, which consists of the following:

HQ
Castellan Crowe

Xenos Inquisitor
- Power Armour
- Rad Grenades
- Psyker Upgrade

Elites
Vindicare Assassin

3x Warrior Acolytes
- Meltaguns
- Jokearo Weaponsmith
- 2x Crusaders (to act to soak up any fire which come their way)
- Chimera

Troops
5x Purifiers
- Halberds
- 2x Psycannons
- Daemonhammer
- Rhino

5x Purifiers
- Halberds
- 2x Psycannons
- Daemonhammer
- Rhino

5x Purifiers
- Halberds
- 2x Psycannons
- Daemonhammer
- Rhino

5x Purifiers
- Falcions
- Daemonhammer
- Razorback

Heavy Support
Dreadnought
- 2x Autocannons
- Psybolts

Dreadnought
- 2x Autocannons
- Psybolts

Now here's the thing: How would I incorporate them, as Terminators or as Paladins? I've heard a lot of praise about the new Paladins, but having looked at their entry they can get pretty costly pretty quickly. I was considering boosting the list up to 2000 points, as this would let me take Paladins and a Dreadknight which I purchased simply for the "wow factor". What do you guys think about this? Should I run Paladins instead of Terminators, and if so, how should I arm them?

There is 0 good reason to include Terminators/Paladins in a Crowe list. Purifiers are without a doubt one of, if not the, single best selection in the codex for shooty and fightiness. Thus if you've already paid the Crowe tax, there's really no reason not to simply take more Purifiers.

If you're dead set on adding TAGK, go the Terminator route simply because they are the cheaper option. Take a psycannon and no other upgrades and enjoy walking around with 4 shots. Or try deepstriking to get rear armor hits.

sourclams wrote:There is 0 good reason to include Terminators/Paladins in a Crowe list. Purifiers are without a doubt one of, if not the, single best selection in the codex for shooty and fightiness. Thus if you've already paid the Crowe tax, there's really no reason not to simply take more Purifiers.

Even in a Crowe list, while I don't take terminators, I do take 2 min-sized strike squads w/psycannon and rhino just for their anti-deepstriking defense. It's just that good against DS-armies.

If I was to take paladins or terminators, I'd take a min-sized terminator squad with all swords, 1 daemonhammer and 1 psycannon. Then snake the chimera with them. But really, you don't need them in a Crowe list.

Ok, maybe I won't use them in the Crowe list, but if I were to change the list for a different game, less competitive for example, how would you recommend I kit out the Paladins?

Thanks

I think, for serious play with intent to win against "normal" competitive lists, not just 'for fun' models-on-the-table spirit-of-the-game kinda stuff, Paladins with a shot at being compettive could/should look something like this:

Draigo
Coteaz

10x Paladins, Apoth, 4x Psycannons, mix of halberds/swords with a hammer or two
Henchswarms in Chimerasxhowever many fit, mix of meltagunners, deathcults, and storm shield bodies

Psyfleman Dreadx3

Hench spam somewhat counteracts the tiny model count of the expensive Draigo Paladin squad. Dreads are murderously efficient AAV shooting, which is necessary given how strapped for points you're still going to be.

Paladins can blob up and take cover behind either Chimeras or Henchman bubblewrap while laying down dakka, and Coteaz can join the squad for more fun with wound dilution and rad grenades.

5 people, no apoetcary.

If 10 people I would take a banner and an apothercary. Get 2 or 4 psycannons. Blessed amunition youn do not need because you are fiering at mech.

Get at least 2 halberds in there and one hammer. If swords depends on they have a psyker or not? Try to get full wound alocation, although at a 10 man group still try to get all of the wound alocation if you roll killpoints (that is one big unit who will earn back there killpoint many times over.) If you are not running kill points splott them into 2 groups on deployment.

Most of the guys on this site seems to try to get the most fire power in a mech/msu style list, but if your local area doesnt use meltaguns everywhere then paladins with wound allocation can be good.

I am currently building a list using about 7 paladins w/ Kaldor Draigo and a Librarian footslogging with them. The librarian has shrouding. I figure that most well made maps will have at least area terrain avalable to the paladins, and with the shrouding psychic power, the paladins become just as durable to high S low AP fire as TH/SS terminators, for only 15 points more and having 2 wounds + FNP against massed anti-infantry fire.

The choice becomes A) ignore the scouting interceptors to pour all fire into the paladins, B) ignore the paladins and try to kill the interceptors, or C) ignore both and shoot out the psi-riflemen dreads.

WHile not the most competitive list, I figure this is what makes paladins useful. with 3 attacks on the charge, at I6 or a 4+ invul in combat, with the durability of TH/SS termies against lascannons, they earn their place on the battlefield: bullet sponges.

Crowe us really bad. He is not an ic. Also way to many negatives for using him.

cgage00 wrote:Crowe us really bad. He is not an ic. Also way to many negatives for using him.

Yeah... But he makes Purifiers troops, which is the reason take him. No one takes him for any other reason. And Purifiers as troops seems to far outweigh any negatives he brings.

Nay their to expsensive and guess the word im thinking melta lascannon apothecaries are useless as I will not shoot bolters at you but str8 and up ap2 and 1.

Try using more coherent sentences, it hurts to read what you're typing. Yes, Paladins are expensive, but the invulnerable saves put off the Ap1/2, and the Apothecary upgrade is far from useless.

Valkyrie wrote:Try using more coherent sentences, it hurts to read what you're typing. Yes, Paladins are expensive, but the invulnerable saves put off the Ap1/2, and the Apothecary upgrade is far from useless.

The invulnerable save isn't great, 5++ against shooting makes me not really like them. I do not like the apothecary upgrade, with diverse squads you shouldn't be taking enough small arms fire to kill whole models very often. Against heavy fire, he does nothing.

That being said, I had decent results from a squad of 5 with 2 cannons yesterday. Everything that came into range died from 8 cannon shots and the remaining stormbolters (lost one first turn to a lascannon, so 4 bolter shots). They didn't get shot much as a result of my intercepter squad being in the enemies face, and the purifiers and strike squads that were scout moved foward by grand strategy.

As long as your opponent has more pressing problems, paladins can be more effective than I expected.

Valkyrie wrote:Try using more coherent sentences, it hurts to read what you're typing. Yes, Paladins are expensive, but the invulnerable saves put off the Ap1/2, and the Apothecary upgrade is far from useless.

4++ will probably save 1/2 so I will probably be able to kill most of them then bubblewrap. as they will murder the bubblewrap I will then shoot them again.

rovian wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:Try using more coherent sentences, it hurts to read what you're typing. Yes, Paladins are expensive, but the invulnerable saves put off the Ap1/2, and the Apothecary upgrade is far from useless.

4++ will probably save 1/2 so I will probably be able to kill most of them then bubblewrap. as they will murder the bubblewrap I will then shoot them again.

Paladins only get 5++ vs shooting.

oh thanks that means they suck more than I thought.

Personally, I plan on using the remainders from my "HQ" box to make solo paladins with MC Daemonhammers. Probably not the most efficient unit in the world, but I figure deepstriking it in near fire support units and dropping holocaust or running up and hammering on Dakka dreads, tanks, artillery, longfangs, etc. Seems worth 60 points and may make it into my DS centered list on occasion. And with a 2+ armour save and 2 wounds, they shouldn't be too scared of most small arms fire (barring a full squad of marines, platoon of lasguns, boat of warriors, etc). I will probably only use them sparingly to close a point gap until I get more models, then they will end up being allocated only at the very high end points games.

I really like the idea of Interceptors with Paladins. I think their hammers have a good chance of messing with he opponent's game plan to focus fire the Paladins.

Having initially been rather sceptical about paladins, I think they have their place in certain lists, not merely limited to Draigo led Paladin spam, either fielded in 5 or 6 man units with 2 psycannon or as 1-man units to deep strike and use holocaust

If given 2 psycannon, 5 or 6 man squads outshoot terminators point for point and are more enduring.

But the apothecary and company banner are poor value unless in big Draigo-spam units, I think.

Artemo wrote:Having initially been rather sceptical about paladins, I think they have their place in certain lists, not merely limited to Draigo led Paladin spam, either fielded in 5 or 6 man units with 2 psycannon or as 1-man units to deep strike and use holocaust

If given 2 psycannon, 5 or 6 man squads outshoot terminators point for point and are more enduring.

But the apothecary and company banner are poor value unless in big Draigo-spam units, I think.

A single Paladin can take a Daemonhammer as well to be a threat to ordinance vehicles on the next turn. Between the hammer and holocaust I think this is a decent idea, excusing the killpoint. Even a single Paladin can weather a lot of shooting or will divert a whole unit's AT fire for a turn or more.

I am toying with a draigo list right now with very very small units of paladins (3 to 4). I think that as long as you have enough anti-tank to not miss their Psycannons you can diversify enough to avoid the perils of footslogging or mishapping when you deep strike. 3 Paladins should be able to tie up most units in the game, and their Holocaust ability should help make up for the lack of attacks.

Legal disclaimer: this is still theory, as I have not had a chance to playtest this list.

Off-topic post removed. This is not World of Warcraft.

SalamanderMarine wrote:Off-topic post removed. This is not World of Warcraft.

Shucks, and it was giving me such a worthy selection of people to pad out my ignore list with.

On-topic: I see some people mention taking 5 or 6 paladins. Why take the sixth? Is there something you get with the sixth that I'm missing?

The more you take, the more wounds you can allocate before you start loosing some. 6 in a Storm Raven or 8 in a Crusader I guess.

SalamanderMarine wrote:Off-topic post removed. This is not World of Warcraft.

[Mod Edit - and now, for ignoring warnings, this user is on an extended vacation.]

Salamandermarine is the first person to make my ignore list. Congrats I guess.

On topic: 6 is the max you can take in a normal LR, chimera or storm raven. I guess its just a case of getting as much out of them as possible while still allowing them to ride in a transport.

More on topic: I tried a unit of 5 with psycannon and falchions in one game that rode in a stolen chimera. They actually did great considering it was the first target my opponent shot down. They still managed to foot slog the rest of the way and tear into a tac marine squad for 2 turns. Lost 1 of them to shooting on the way and that was it.

Fair enough, though if I were keeping them simply to use as a psycannon platform, I think I'd do either 3-man or 5-man, with the idea being to keep them cheap and hide them in cover as much as possible.

[Mod Edit - Spam isn't welcome.]

I suggest people calm down, stay on topic, etc.

OK?

daedalus wrote:Fair enough, though if I were keeping them simply to use as a psycannon platform, I think I'd do either 3-man or 5-man, with the idea being to keep them cheap and hide them in cover as much as possible.

The issue with that is that a 3-man squad can't take any heavy/special weapons. The codex says "for every five, two may take..."