Salamanders Codex

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**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Now, I've heard several people discussing the idea of a Salamanders Codex, and my only army is Salamanders. I'm just going to say right now, I'm against it for three reasons.

1: I've spent two years learning how my Codex Salamanders play, and I don't want that all to go to waste. Sure, that's selfish on my part and not really a good reason. Bear with me!

2: The Salamanders Codex would be written by Matt Ward, wouldn't it? To be fair, Ward did okay writing the Spess Mehreens codex; game wise, they were good. Fluff wise, though, I can't stand his writing style. Again, not that great a reason.

3: Finally, the Salamanders aren't different enough from the Codex to warrant their own book. They make heavy use of heat based weapons and thunder hammers, and they have black skin and red eyes. That's really not all that different. The Salamanders deserve some fluff, they deserve their own special character in the Marines codex; but they don't deserve their own book.

A pure Salamanders player, signing off!

**Brother SRM**

Well, Phil Kelly wrote the Space Wolves codex, so it's not like Ward is on full-time Marine duty. I think Salamanders have enough room in the Marine codex and in the latest Imperial Armour that they don't need anything else specific to them. I wasn't aware it was much of a point of contention, however.

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

It was a minor debate at my local game store, not sure how far spread the argument was.

**fox-light713**

A down loadable pdf would probably work like for a special character and specifics on what a salamanders army can take . Maybe some minor adjustments to the options of the wargear lists for some of the SM units.

**OnDebit**

in 3rd edition the mini dex Codex: Armageddon gave the Salamanders their own army list. it also gave Black Templars their own army list.

considering that Black templars subsequently got a full fledged codex, I see no reason why Salamanders shouldn't have one.

additionally, Dark Angels (my personal fav marine chapter) aren't all that unique in terms of their codex rules, but still get their own book.

it's all about what they do with it.

the salamanders are all better than average artificers and tinkerers and have a greater sense of individuality then is seen in most chapters. I think that this alone could be used to give them a bunch of really neat choices and/or rules. not to mention, and I know this might sound about as cool as the GK's new monkey, but imagine if they could field one of the fire drakes native to their home planet. could be pretty cool in my opinion.

**-Loki-**

OnDebit wrote:in 3rd edition the mini dex Codex: Armageddon gave the Salamanders their own army list. it also gave Black Templars their own army list.

considering that Black templars subsequently got a full fledged codex, I see no reason why Salamanders shouldn't have one.

additionally, Dark Angels (my personal fav marine chapter) aren't all that unique in terms of their codex rules, but still get their own book.

it's all about what they do with it.

the salamanders are all better than average artificers and tinkerers and have a greater sense of individuality then is seen in most chapters. I think that this alone could be used to give them a bunch of really neat choices and/or rules. not to mention, and I know this might sound about as cool as the GK's new monkey, but imagine if they could field one of the fire drakes native to their home planet. could be pretty cool in my opinion.

They're still not divergant enough to warrant it. Dark Angels at least have things like Deathwing and Ravenwing. I mean, I'm a huge Salamanders fan. But still...

In the Salamanders mini-list, they were basically normal Space marines with I3, immune to All On Your Own, had hard limits on fast attack choices (0-1 on basically all of them) and had some special bits of wargear and a couple of different weapon options for tactical squads, which have either disappeared completely or been put in the standard Codex Space Marines. The Black Templars mini-list was actually very different. It included new units (like the Emperors Champion and the Land Raider Crusader) and added some pretty unconventional additions to other units, like their 'Tactical Squads' being able to take bolt pistol and CCW and scouts being moved to Neophytes in standard squads, plus other things like their Vows.

It simple made sense to make a separate codex for Black Templars, because they are a very divergant chapter in terms of composition and gameplay. The Salamanders, frankly, aren't. While they are smaller and have less companies, their basic squad composition i the same as a codex chapter. They have a penchant for master crafting everything and using thunder hammers and flamers. This is covered by Vulkans Chapter Tactics. While it is annoying to have a precious HQ slot eaten up be Vulkan if you want to run a 'real' Salamanders list, it's the best representation of the chapter.

Basically, the best way to represent them better is make Chapter Tactics an upgrade for any HQ instead of being tied to a special character, so you don't have to take Vulkan to make the army play like a Salamanders force. A separate codex would be a complete waste of GW's resources when there's codices that actually need updating. We really don't need Firedrakes riding Firedrakes using Drakehammers and Drakegauntlets firing Breath of the Firedrake.

**Blacksails**

Part of me would instantly play a Salamanders codex.

The other part of me would feel that the coolness of Salamanders would evaporate with a distinct codex as everyone and their dog played them.

They are the best first founding chapter, IMHO.

**ShatteredBlade**

You can easily do this with the C:SM. All you need is to call power fists Flaming lizard fist, the thunder hammer the Obsidian Forge Hammer and call everything else varient of flamming and slamanders. Boom, done. Next!

( Please don't do this..)

**EmilCrane**

Codex space marines allows you to play salamanders quite well, just get vulkan some TH/SS termies, tactical squads with meltas and flamers and there you go, all done.

**MechaEmperor7000**

For quite some time my friend thought Dark Angels were Salamanders and that Deathwing had Mastercrafted weapons

If there is going to be one (and honest to god I hope no) then it'll likely follow the formula of other marine dexes. We'd probably get a few special units like a whole unit of marines armed with thunder hammers, a variant of the predator or land raider with only flame and melta guns, and so on. The only major gameplay change is them bringing back the -1 Initiative penalty the old Armageddon Salamanders had, but in exchange they might get all Relentless.

**martin74**

no, no, no. i do like my salamanders and the way i play them. however, they do not need thier own seperate codex. i do like the idea of maybe another special character, just don't know of one.

**Blacksails**

I understand the fluff behind dropping the I to 3, but wouldn't it more accurate to keep I4 and have a special rule that forces them to strike after an unmodified I4 unit? I3 represents human speed, and space marines (even the Salamanders) are genetically enhanced super humans. The Salamanders are slow for a marine, but still significantly faster than regular I3 models.

**Oneofdaboys**

I love my salamanders and their fluff. My only argument.... why the HELL space nuns can take heavy flamers in their squads and regular tac squads cant. I think if you take Vulkan you should be allowed to use your 10 man tac squad heavy slot for a heavy flamer. That is all I ask.

**martin74**

i do agree with the hvy flamer suggestion. we can only use them with terminators and legion of the damned.

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Hey guys, I've started making my own army list for the marines, so why don't you check it out and see what you think.

Link is in my sig.

**Luco**

I like the idea and it would give room for expansion of the fluff, for better or worse. However, I would like to see expansions of other races before seeing another marine expansion. Craftworld or Legion codecies chief among them. Then again it would get kinda crazy with all of the rules to remember. It would be better if we rolled every faction of a race into one then got more races.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like the idea and it would give room for expansion of the fluff, for better or worse. However, I would like to see expansions of other races before seeing another marine expansion. Craftworld or Legion codecies chief among them. Then again it would get kinda crazy with all of the rules to remember. It would be better if we rolled every faction of a race into one then got more races.

**OnDebit**

a couple good points were brought up in that, if a Salamander codex was to be done, I'd want all current codices to have been updated first, as well as maybe have a couple alternate Xenos faction codices (especially Craftworld: Biel-Tan and or Ulthwe).

but never the less, and I'm probably in the minority with this line of thinking, I'd love to see every founding marine's chapter, traitors included, get their own personal codices. is it going to happen? is it even really necessary? probably no on both accounts, but I can dream can't I?

**Harriticus**

Would Salamanders even be that interesting of a codex? They don't seem to have anything especially "unique" about them.

**spireland**

It would be nice if they got a codex, so you would see a few forces deployed without Vulcan. Man, that guy gets around!

**Melkhiordarkblade**

Nah I think we are safe from this.

Salamanders are pretty much covered in C:SM.
The only few things that made the different from normal marines is all there in Vulkan He'stans rules.

**Revenent Reiko**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote: We'd probably get a few special units like a whole unit of marines armed with thunder hammers, a variant of the predator or land raider with only flame and melta guns, and so on.

So a Baal pred w/ flamestorm cannon and heavy flamer sponsons and a LRR then...

sorry, i had to do it.

I agree with the general consensus though, i love Salamanders, and they are unique, but not enough to have their own dex (and their fluff obliterated by Ward).

**MechaEmperor7000**

Revenent Reiko wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: We'd probably get a few special units like a whole unit of marines armed with thunder hammers, a variant of the predator or land raider with only flame and melta guns, and so on.
So a Baal pred w/ flamestorm cannon and heavy flamer sponsons and a LRR then...
sorry, i had to do it.

Exactly what I was thinking of, although the Land Raider probably has a Melta cannon similar to the Devildog and they'll have a predator with only melta options.

As far as uniqueness goes, alot of the founding chapters in the Marine dex have fully different organisations and probably warrent a variant dex moreso than the two angels of Death. If I remember Scott-66 once pointed out how White Scars are just as deviant (if not moreso) than the Space Wolves, while Iron Hands actually had a unique model to them before (and can totally work with bionic upgrades for the entire chapter, or as their chapter trait). Salamanders are also up there, since they have a disproportionally higher amount of melta weaponry and master craftsmen (maybe we can finally get a SM codex that isnt CC based). While I wouldnt like it, It'd definately feels a little bit more justified if they got codexes instead of the Angels of Death.

**Revenent Reiko**

I see what you mean, but as a (secret) BA player (since the introduction of the new BA codex i dont want to be labelled as a bandwagon-er even though ive played them since 3ed), i think i can safely say that the BA are easily unique/deviant enough to have their own dex. however, i am biased

totally agree with the White Scars, and the Iron Hands (to a lesser extent because their uniqueness can be compensated using the FoC and wargear options), but if the only deviation from C:SM that the Salamanders has is wargear... then i cant really see the point. yeah they are great (dont get me wrong, i love the Sallies) but wargear preferences have already been covered in the current dex and dont equate to the need for a new one. Vulkan especially covers all the bases for the Salamanders, but it would be nice if you didnt have to use him every time, i agree.

**Necroshea**

All this talk of special characters for salamanders reminds me of Xavier. Why did they have to kill him off, he was such a cool looking model.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Lexicanium describes them as having a different organisation due to the effects of Nocturn and their own Promethian cult teachings. Namely they field a disproportionally higher amount of Terminators and Devastator Squads as well as possessing almost no Speeders or Bikes. They also have a higher concentration of flame and melta based weaponry (just about the only thing actually represented in the rules) but have slower reflexes. It seems that even without gimmicky Ward-esque units, Salamanders have some great groundwork as a stand alone dex.

**Revenent Reiko**

Necroshea wrote:All this talk of special characters for salamanders reminds me of Xavier. Why did they have to kill him off, he was such a cool looking model.

Definitely, i loved that model when my friend got it. Xavier was the reason i started looking at the Salamanders fluff in the first place.
Still cant remember how/why he died though....

**OnDebit**

I dislike having to take a special character in order to field the type of army I want, no matter what codex it comes from. not every Deathwing force is led by Belial, nor the Ravenwing by Sammael. in a similar vein, why should I have to use Vulkan in order to have an army that plays vaguelly like the Salamanders? all my flame/heat type weapons are twin linked? that ain't nothin', but that's not all that makes the Salamanders unique.

Do we NEED anymore chapter codices, probably not. will we got more? almost assuredly even if it isn't any time soon, so it might as well be the Salamanders.

**MechaEmperor7000**

This goes back to the old argument of the Chapter Traits system. Now that was true diversity done right.

**A-Hivemind**

Blacksails wrote:I understand the fluff behind dropping the I to 3, but wouldn't it more accurate to keep I4 and have a special rule that forces them to strike after an unmodified I4 unit? I3 represents human speed, and space marines (even the Salamanders) are genetically enhanced super humans. The Salamanders are slow for a marine, but still significantly faster than regular I3 models.

The biggest fluff behind their lower initiative has really got to substance behind it. If you have ever watched Dragon Ball z where Goku trains under 10x gravity, thus increasing and multiplying his speed and power. (Weebo and anime-wtf-physics aside) The same idea is behind weight training. You increase the weights for you bicep curls, the gravitational pull increases too. Not by a massive amount but the influence is still there.

Though the gene-seed and high gravity of Nocture interacting with each other for GENETICALLY make them react slower than a standard marine has enough leeway for it to work. The 40k universe has no real definition of what is possible and what is utter crap.

**Brother SRM**

You're about a year late on this thread, bucko.