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What does a good BT list look like these days?

Tank Hunting assault cannon terminators mixed in with some assault terminator goodness? Drop Pods vs Rhinos vs Razorbacks for the Crusade Squads? Land Raider or no?

Several threads about BT floating around I think:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357631.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/358386.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357956.page

Good Luck.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357021.page#2625709 is another BT thread that isn't old. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357021.page#2625709 is yet another one. As I've posted replies in both these, as well as two of the threads referenced by Just Dave, I'm not going to go through the trouble of posting my wall o' text again. Best of luck though!

In a nutshell (will get more in depth if you wish and I have the time), it is my personal belief that the strength level of the codex is as follows:

#1) Gunlines -- Las/Plas Crusaders in Razorbacks, Dual-CML Terminators, Typhoons, and Predators.

#2) MSU Drop Pods -- Lots of small, redundant bolter/melta Crusaders, melta Dreadnoughts, Typhoons, maybe a Command Squad to taste.

#3) CC-Oriented Mech -- Assault tooled Crusaders in Rhinos (or PotMS Razorbacks), Typhoons, Predators, and shooty Dreads/Terminators to taste.

It is my personal believe that having assault Terminators in the list, however good they are, simply takes up too many points for the return. If your interested in learning more, hit me up or visit Implausible Nature.

The 5 man las-plas is amazing for what you get.

The venerable dreadnought with tank hunting assault cannon is amazing.

Power of the machine spirit vindicators with extra armor are amazing

the basic crusader squad in a rhino is amazing

Marshalls with Storm shield and adamantium mantle are amazing

land speeder typhoons are amazing.


Techmarines are pretty awesome too.

Put this all together in the right configuration, and your army will be amazing too.

What did the FAQ do that makes them so different?

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:What did the FAQ do that makes them so different?

\


If you go and read the FAQ, you will see.

extrenm(54) wrote:If you go and read the FAQ, you will see.

Not seeing a lot in there that looks like it makes much difference. Not that I was -too- familiar with the Codex to begin with.
Or is it more in the Errata section, what looks like a change to Storm Shields and a few other things?

Storm Shields, Power of the Machine Spirit, 5th ed smokes, current cyclone missile launchers, etc. Read the FAQ and go through each point, examining what each change does to the codex.

Edit: Also, depending on the army I'll have a few LRC's with a Chappy and teleport homer, either a few crusaders with him or Lightning Claw termies packed in. The end result isn't an all-comers list, but depending on how long his LRC lasts, I can get pretty far and dictate where my teleporting termies come in and take advantage of their CML's. A small fleet of Crusaders in rhinos flank either side, supported by a pair of vindicators and Las-Pred in hiding. I think that anti armor is that list's main weakness--taking transports out of commission lies on a melta shot out of a rhino hatch, powerPUNCH, or lascannon shot. The vindi's mow down troops, mainly--it's what they're best at, IMO. I've been painting up a small fleet of Land Speeders, and plan on implementing them. Please note that I'm not a tourney player, nor will I ever be--it's all casual to me.

Ahh, okay, I thought he meant the FAQ portion of the FAQ. Makes more sense now. Thanks for the clarification.

Soo...was thinking this:

Emp Champ with Preferred Enemy Vow! (Old habits die hard)
7 Assault Terms (Healthy mix of LC's and TH/SS)
FURIOUS CHARGE ('natch)
Land Raider Crusader

5 "tactical" termies with 2x AssCan's/Tank Hunter
5 "tactical" termies with 2x AssCan's/Tank Hunter

10 Crusaders in Rhino
10 Crusaders in Rhino
10 Crusaders in Rhino

Typhoon
Typhoon

Pred with PoTMS
Pred with PoTMS

Thoughts?
- Vindi's vs Preds? (I feel like I'll need the range and "reliable" tankbusting")
- Marshal with Adamantine Mantle? (He is a beast, plus can go with a terminator command squad and free me up an elite slot for a dread or more terminators...)

I kinda want to play this army in your face.

Preferred Enemy doesn't grant hit on 3+ anymore.

That said, you don't have a lot of long-ranged anti-tank. While preds are good, the enemy could just gun your typhoons down and then deal with your preds, as they don't have much of a volume of fire. Meanwhile, your LRC will have the biggest "SHOOT ME PLEASE!" sign ever, attracting every melta-weapon, assault cannon, demolisher, haywire grenade, etc. in the enemy army. It's a LOT of points in one place. At least run the Champion somewhere else, the terminators can handle themselves.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Preferred Enemy doesn't grant hit on 3+ anymore.

That said, you don't have a lot of long-ranged anti-tank. While preds are good, the enemy could just gun your typhoons down and then deal with your preds, as they don't have much of a volume of fire. Meanwhile, your LRC will have the biggest "SHOOT ME PLEASE!" sign ever, attracting every melta-weapon, assault cannon, demolisher, haywire grenade, etc. in the enemy army. It's a LOT of points in one place. At least run the Champion somewhere else, the terminators can handle themselves.

Old habits die hard. Preferred Enemy is way better than always hitting on a 3+ anyway.

So...if I read what you're saying right....the answer is to BRING MOAR LAND RAIDERS??!?!


Emp's Champ
LRC + 8 Terms
LRC + 8 Terms

Crusade Squad in Rhino
Crusade Squad in Rhino

Typhoon

Pred
Pred

I just don't like the MSU style that all marine armies seem to be gravitating too these days, even if it is powerful.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Preferred Enemy doesn't grant hit on 3+ anymore.

That said, you don't have a lot of long-ranged anti-tank. While preds are good, the enemy could just gun your typhoons down and then deal with your preds, as they don't have much of a volume of fire. Meanwhile, your LRC will have the biggest "SHOOT ME PLEASE!" sign ever, attracting every melta-weapon, assault cannon, demolisher, haywire grenade, etc. in the enemy army. It's a LOT of points in one place. At least run the Champion somewhere else, the terminators can handle themselves.

I think this problem could be solved to an extent by swapping the predators for vindicators. Whilst this leaves you with near-nothing for ranged firepower, it does mean that you'll have a line of 2 Vindicators, 3 Rhinos and a LRC heading towards your enemy and at least one of the Vindi's or LRC would make it to the enemy and create a mess. Not a perfect solution as the crusader is still the ultimate target, but if you screen it with rhinos to protect against melta, then your opponent still has a lot of nasty stuff being rammed down their throat.
This could also leave you Typhoons to harass the enemy relatively unmolested. Potentially.
As I said, not a perfect solution but IMHO it's a better one...

whitedragon wrote:

Emp's Champ
LRC + 8 Terms
LRC + 8 Terms

Crusade Squad in Rhino
Crusade Squad in Rhino

Typhoon

Pred
Pred

I just don't like the MSU style that all marine armies seem to be gravitating too these days, even if it is powerful.

This list would suffer even MORE from "all eggs" syndrome in that it has so much points in such a small area. I'd drop one termie squad and their LRC along with the predators, which lets you add 2 vindicators with PotMS, one lasplas squad and another typhoon and still have all the points from the predators left over, as you didn't specify what kind of predators they are. Regardless, the points spent on predators could go into yet another typhoon and a tank hunter vendread. This way, you'll force your opponent to either shoot all the nastybad stuff driving into his face or to shoot your fire support.

Agreed that POTMS vindicators are crazy good for the points, and also that typhoons are incredible harassment units.

In terms of sheer competitive play, these shooting tweaks are probably more sensible a choice to go with. That having been said, the FAQ tweaks make our close combat insanely good. Even a squad of 5 terminators (3 LC 2 TH/SS) will munch most things in combat.

Remember as well that you can run 5 man termie squads with either 2 ass cannons or 2 cyclones. You can have 8 S7 anti tank shots or 4 S9 anti tank shots a turn - both equally fearsome IMHO.

I'm just afraid of trying to deliver assault terminators without a Land Raider, although I see your point about the Vindi's vs the Preds.