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So with Warhammer taking off again in this area, we have a new player picking up Imperial Guard. He seems, thus far, a bit frustrated with how his army is going.
So far he has 3 Heavy Weapon Teams, 2 or 3 squads of Guardsmen (generally taken as Vets), 2 squads of Stormtroopers, a squad of 5 Ratlings, 4 or 5 (non-Ratling) Snipers, and, I believe, the command squad with a bunch of advisors that give varying abilities. He has proxied a few Chimeras and a couple Basilisks, but I think he wasn't using the Chimeras 'correctly'. But did seem to like the big guns.

What I'm looking for is a suggestion for him on what to get next, what direction to shoot for, that kind of thing. He's not big on tanks, but does seem to like the 'sit back and pound the battlefield' sort of artillery, and doesn't like Ogryn, but otherwise seems open to most of the Codex.

More artillery for sure, sitting back with the big guns is advisable if the entire army is predicated on being static. More Chimeras/Valkiryes/Vendettas and above all a Codex, (if he doesn't have one)

I would ditch the snipers, the rules for snipers are just too poor to warrant their inclusion.

Ah, yes, he does have the Codex, forgot to mention that.

He likes the idea of Valks/Vendettas, but I thought it might be better to get some more basic stuff of some sort or another first.

So for the Chimeras, load them up with Vets and drive them around to where they need to be, while laying down cover fire with the big guns?

+2 for these and if theres any suggestion I could possibly give ... Get leman russ's enough said

And a lord commisar with a fist between a meat shield of guardsman

Guardsman are always going to play defense and use that to the advantage so load up on bodies and watch the kill count fly

if he has hvy weapon teams, he needs to use them with reagular squad/platoon, not vets. the best thing i can suggest, if he is just running a platoon as a troop choice, get a commissar. they are cheap, effective, and just good all around.

tanks are fun to build around and so are special units. i like storm troopers, but, they are expensive. ratlings are just good for the extra bit of points you are trying to fill.

6 chimeras
2 vendettas
2 hydra flak cannons
1 Manticore

Stuff to go inside the chimeras and vendettas - melta vets preferable for the vendettas.

That's the stuff to get. In terms of how to use it to beat face, Dakka is full of IG players who beat face with Mech IG.

Dashofpepper wrote:6 chimeras
2 vendettas
2 hydra flak cannons
1 Manticore

Stuff to go inside the chimeras and vendettas - melta vets preferable for the vendettas.

That's the stuff to get. In terms of how to use it to beat face, Dakka is full of IG players who beat face with Mech IG.

You could also try the foot rush route, but it takes alot more tinkering as the tools for it involve lots of minatures and time as fewer play foot IG nowadays.

It doesn't look like he has much in the way of armor. He needs some pie plates to support his plucky guardsmen basilisks are a must if your friend likes artillary. Vets shouldn't really be on foot, since their to valuable, that's reserved for blob squads. Vandettas are amazing, I really suggest getting at least one for the sheer amount of anti vehicle power they give the IG.

2 Basilisks and 2 Medusae, plus either two more Hydras or one manticore for his heavy support slots.

I'd also ditch the snipers, plus the stormtroopers. And load up on vets in chimeras or a power blob or two on foot.

Two of Vendettas too,for those tough targets

Meltavets are so predicable and boring (and expensive).
Infantryhorde with 2-300 guardsmen takes forever to paint.

ergo

combined arms are nice. Perhaps not as broken powerful as meltavets.

A Manticore/Basilisk with hull flamer, Vendettas and Battletanks are your armoured friends.

Dual Griffons are also really good.

Take one infantry blob of 2-30 models + 1 unit of ten

B= Bloob
I= 10 man unit
C= command squad

I I I I I I I I I I
B B B C C C C
B B B B B B B
B B B B B B B

Gives both your blob (with commissar) and command squad cover saves. And if they assult you theyll probably hit your 10 man sacrifce unit, win combat and be left open for another turn of guardsmen fire.

Another turn of fire with FRFSRF! makes alot of difference.

If you like you could give your sergeants and commissar powerweapons you you can finish of weakened units in CC.

Its a not so common playstyle but i feel its "true" to the spirit of IG where 90% casualties and massed lasguns are the backbone of the Imperium.

You've got this backwards. Creating a successful and fun 40k list starts out with a solid core of troops and HQ, and only then adds on fun toys.

The absolute first thing he needs to do is dump all of the crud he has (like sniper rifles), and get some real troops choices. This means he needs to keep what he has as vets, but add as many plasma guns as they can hold and some chimeras, or some commissars, a LOT more dudes, and either as many plasma weapons or as many power weapons as they can hold.

Once he has a solid core, he can handle most things, and stands a real chance at winning some games, which is great for morale. Only once he has a clear understanding of what the core of his army can do should he even BEGIN to look at the elites, FA, or HS options at his disposal.

... although running a basilisk or two probably wouldn't hurt.

As Ailaros said, the biggest problem with brand new players is they go gaga over the shiny heavy support, fast attack and elite choices, and neglect their troops choices. For the IG, the infantry be they massed blobs, or mechanized veterans should be your bread and butter, with steak (other fancy things) as add ons as you see fit. So yes, my advice to your friend is to start buying infantry squads and Chimeras. Yes, after a 100 Guardsmen, and the 10th Chimera it starts getting boring painting them, but if you want to win games, that's something you'll have to suffer through in the Imperial Guard.

Tell him to pick up another battleforce, to give him some more infantry. If he wants to go mech vet or air cav, buy Chimeras or a Valkyrie kit. If he wants to go blob, buy more infantry boxes, with a Basilisk/Leman RUss or two to break up the monotony.

It's a common occurence for any new player to pick up a 'dex and be instantly baffled by the sheer wealth of options available. As the IG 'dex has even *more* options than normal, this makes things doubly confusing as not only do you have lots of units to pick from, but each of those units then comes with a ton of options and configurations some of which make sense, and others that don't.

As has been already stated, the key thing to do is focus on the essentials. Troops will win you games, tanks and artillery just lets you do it more easily. I'd advise him to keep the 2-3 Vet squads he has now and equip them with *either* 3 x melta *or* 3 x plasma dependant upon how vehicle/infantry heavy your local lists are (don't forget the Chimeras). Then supplement in a solid platoon. Around 3 PIS tends to be the right amount, and I'd be inclined to equip them with heavy weaponry as opposed to the power-blob route (the Vets already comprise your fast-hitting element).

Once you've got this solid core you should find yourself naturally gravitating towards artillery or Leman Russ tanks to fill out the Heavy Support section. A squadron of 2 x Hydras, a Manticore and either Basilisks or Leman Russ MBT/Demolishers/Executioners can deal lots of damage from a long way away, and help crack enemy tanks so your Vets and PIS can hit them with the good stuff .

That should keep your list size at around 1500-1750pts in size, and with a bit of playtesting and personal tweaking should do fine on the table.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:That should keep your list size at around 1500-1750pts in size, and with a bit of playtesting and personal tweaking should do fine on the table.

Yeah, actually, if not lower.

New people with new armies should be playing low point level games. It's not worth it to play higher points games if the only way the new player can play at that points level is to bloat their army up with useless crap. Much better to play a lower point game with just core units that the new player can bring an at least vaguely competitive list against than to lose a bunch of games because they brought a crappy list just to play at higher points levels.

Appreciated, all around. I'll tell him to get a couple Chimeras, some more Vets, a few big guns, Commissars to lead things, and trade some of the locals for Plasma Guns (it seems the IG box doesn't come with one...weird...).
I'll have to figure out how he can field those heavy weapons, as he has three of them, but I don't think he has enough bodies to field an Infantry Platoon; again, I guess the answer is, for now, just more of that same boxed set. And then eventually a few gunships to round things out.

I figure tell him to ditch the vanilla snipers, but keep the squad of Ratlings since it's a lone thing and he seems to like the concept enough to spend a few points on them. Same with the Stormtroopers; let them drop in and do their thing, it's not like he's devoting his whole army to them.

I will echo the other posters with Manticore. If he doesnt like tanks but likes sitting back and pounding, nothing beats a manticore, and for what it does, the manticore has a tiny foot print, in points cost, size and slot.

1 Manticore is a scary thing
2 manticores is madness
3 manticores is leafblower, but also suboptimal, as they are easily destroyed, and easily twarted by heavy armour.

Once again, echoing, he needs to drop some of the advisers for maybae a vendetta, consider running a powerblob, and get a couple chimeras, while also outfitting his CCS with plasma.