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I haven't seen this discussed yet, so if I missed it then I apologize.

The GK Brotherhood Champion has the rule Heroic Sacrifice:

"If the psychic test is successful, the Brotherhood Champion immediately makes a single attack against one enemy model that was in base contact when he died. If this attack hits, both models are removed as casualites with no saves of any kind allowed."

This would seem to implly that a dead Brotherhood Champion that was in base contact with a dreadnought could instakill the dreadnought with a psychic test and roll to hit, even though he is only Str 4 and completely unable to penetrate the dreadnought's armor.

It's a *psychic power* - what has his strength got to do with it?

It also means that a Bro Champ who dies in base with a Land Raider or Monolith that didn't move last turn only has to pass a psychic test and they are removed. RAW that seems to be how it works, but I'm hoping we create enough buzz to get it FAQ'd if that was not RAI.

Pretty simple really. While there's a lot of things that don't make sense in this game from the perspective of our reality (it's the 41 Millenium with super-tech, daemons, etc.), this is one that makes me raise an eyebrow and wonder, "Is that really what you meant GW?"

I suspect it's meant to be non-vehicle models, since it doesn't make a lot of sense that he can remove models he has absolutely no hope of hurting what-so-ever.

RAW would seem to be what I've typed in the original post though, that he can remove anything at all that he happens to be in base contact with.

I could foresee it getting errata'd to only work on opponents he could wound/damage much like sweeping advance, especially after it is used to remove a nasty high-av veheicle; but for the time being it works.

the set-up for it is going to be difficult to pull off though; he would need to be in base-contact with the vehicle then get assaulted by an enemy unit(should the vehicle not be a walker); and the vehicle not move away during it's movement phase(which would mean that he would need to be able to damage the vehicle for it to be stunned, unless it was stunned in the GK players shooting phase, or previously immobilized). BC cannot multi-charge a unit+vehicle so he would need to already be in contact with the vehicle when the unit kills him, and should the unit he is with get assaulted and him not contacted, he must move to contact during Defenders react(as one is not "engaged" with vehicles).

Agreed, unless it's my Furioso Dread assaulting his terminator unit with the Brotherhood Champion in it. Which is very likely in our 500 pts games.

Sucks for me! LOL

It would be interesting to see if you could choose to death or glory in front of a battlewagon with a deffrolla and auto-remove the wagon. And what would happen to any squad that was inside?

I'd like to see the look on the Necron player's face when the champion makes a beeline straight for Nightbringer.

Ahahahah!!! The AT mine brotherhood champion made me laugh... Fortunately it's clearly stated that he cannot remove a vehicle with death or glory since the "heroic sacrifice" can be activated only during assault phase

Dok wrote:It would be interesting to see if you could choose to death or glory in front of a battlewagon with a deffrolla and auto-remove the wagon. And what would happen to any squad that was inside?

DoG does not 'remove' the vehicle, page 69 of the brb to brush up on it.

ChrisCP wrote:

Dok wrote:It would be interesting to see if you could choose to death or glory in front of a battlewagon with a deffrolla and auto-remove the wagon. And what would happen to any squad that was inside?

DoG does not 'remove' the vehicle, page 69 of the brb to brush up on it.

DoK's post was under the false assumption that the Brotherhoon Champ could activate Heroic Sacrifice to remove the vehicle after failing to stop the vehicle via DoG; DoG does not remove the vehicle, but heroic Sacrifice does.

Which does lead to a good follow-up question(Thank you chris): What happens when the BHC is in Base-to-base with a transport Vehicle(containing a squad) and dies in the Assault phase, passes the Psychic test and elects to have the transport removed?

No Automatic-Pen so no chance to escape *blip*
=P

Only thing I can think of that is a similar situation is ramming your fast skimmer-transport into a tree while moving Flat out(or any Fast vehicle into an enemy tank and receiving a Destroyed result) or catching your Fast-transport that moved flat out with a Scattered Blast marker and destroying it: all of which GW says, you lose the transported unit(because you were being dumb/careless with it).

Although I can se them saying the same thing for leaving a transport in Base-contact with a BHC, filled with troops, not disembarking them, then assaulting that BHC, and killing him: it is all your fault, lose the unit, and stop being a dumb-donkey.

One wonders if the FAQ will be as long as the codex...

Twice as long.

Oaka wrote:I'd like to see the look on the Necron player's face when the champion makes a beeline straight for Nightbringer.

My Crowe did take out a Nightbringer.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Only thing I can think of that is a similar situation is ramming your fast skimmer-transport into a tree while moving Flat out(or any Fast vehicle into an enemy tank and receiving a Destroyed result) or catching your Fast-transport that moved flat out with a Scattered Blast marker and destroying it: all of which GW says, you lose the transported unit(because you were being dumb/careless with it).

Although I can se them saying the same thing for leaving a transport in Base-contact with a BHC, filled with troops, not disembarking them, then assaulting that BHC, and killing him: it is all your fault, lose the unit, and stop being a dumb-donkey.

SAG gun, told "you" the auto-pen was there for a reason
I see FAQ going with 'unit may disembark normally' really, or it turns HS into not a bad deathstar killer at all/people may cry

ChrisCP wrote:I see FAQ going with 'unit may disembark normally' really

I see FAQ saying "no vehicles", honestly.

But in the mean time: have fun removing tanks with a 100 point suicide model kids!

P.S.: anyone else notice that the BHC can get Digital Weapons, that he has to pay for... And his anointed blade already re-rolls any failed to-wound for free?!

Haha no vehicles, that'd be right.

Well... if one took two of them, it could be for wound allocation~!

ChrisCP wrote:Haha no vehicles, that'd be right.

Well... if one took two of them, it could be for wound allocation~!

Good luck with wound allocation on independent characters

Battle weagons are not in base contact when they deff rolla you. Vehicles have to stop 1" away from any unit they would tank shock. No escape from da 'uge spiky barrel!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:Haha no vehicles, that'd be right.

Well... if one took two of them, it could be for wound allocation~!

Good luck with wound allocation on independent characters

Ever hear of a Shooting Phase?



btw J/K

Jidmah wrote:Battle weagons are not in base contact when they deff rolla you. Vehicles have to stop 1" away from any unit they would tank shock. No escape from da 'uge spiky barrel!

not at all true. if when tank shocking you contact a friendly model or get to 1" away from an enemy vehicle, then yes the tank stops.

But, any non-vehicle enemy unit that is in the way simply takes a Ld test; and then only actually stops the vehicle if they opt to death or glory and succeed in immobilizing, stunning, or destroying it. if they stop the vehicle it will be in base-to-base(er, hull).

Nothing in Tank shock, nor DoG ever states that the Tank stays 1" away from anything other than an enemy vehicle(the Diagram-example shows the Predator in contact with the Ork Boy when the Predator Stops moving for the nob to DoG)

Kommissar Kel wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:Haha no vehicles, that'd be right.

Well... if one took two of them, it could be for wound allocation~!

Good luck with wound allocation on independent characters

Ever hear of a Shooting Phase?



btw J/K

"On the other hand, it is common for units to include models with different weapons or wargear and characters with different profiles (and sometimes even different armour)."
"If the unit they have joined is hit, the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like the other members of the unit."
"unit are identical in gaming terms. By this we mean they have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same weapons and wargear."

As two Brothers would be identical down to the name of the profile, they would be identical, so one could not allocate wounds to either one. Buying digital weapons prevents this ^_^

I would like to see this in apoc lol.

Uh, right 1" for vehicles and friendlies only.
Still, it's not like it's easy to force your opponent to kill your champion. You could still tank shock the unit without coming in b2b with him, or not shoot his unit to pieces while the champion is next to a transport that for some reason forgot to simply drive away. Or stop being a panzee and ram an empty battleweagon straight into him anyways.

Jidmah wrote:Uh, right 1" for vehicles and friendlies only.
Still, it's not like it's easy to force your opponent to kill your champion.

you can use the inquisitor character to drop a non-scattering S10 AP1 nuke onto him to force him to die

scubasteve04 wrote:I would like to see this in apoc lol.

Champion gets in b2b with an imperator and pulls a David Copperfield after being stomped like a roach.... Sounds about right.

Grundz wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Uh, right 1" for vehicles and friendlies only.
Still, it's not like it's easy to force your opponent to kill your champion.

you can use the inquisitor character to drop a non-scattering S10 AP1 nuke onto him to force him to die

Uh... go ahead? Please?

I would be Willing to Sacrifice a 100 point model for a decent chance to get rid of something that model was in base-to-base with(especially when that 100 point model has 0 chance to kill what he is in base-to-base with to begin), and cause an ancillary Large-blast S10 AP1 to every thing surrounding that small based model(although smart opponents will remove/kill everything in Base-to-base with him, sometimes the lance strike won't kill the model I would be targeting to begin with).

punkow wrote:Ahahahah!!! The AT mine brotherhood champion made me laugh... Fortunately it's clearly stated that he cannot remove a vehicle with death or glory since the "heroic sacrifice" can be activated only during assault phase

Good call!