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OK i started playing warhammer in 97 while i was in middle school.

I was reading through the forums and a piece of fluff popped into my head that i remember hearing back in those days.
goes something like this:


Random marine surrounded by orks or something, he grabs one of there guns, turns to fire, it doesnt go off.
Orks are the most powerfull psykers in the galaxy. they just don't know it.
There guns work because they believe they work.
There vehicle go faster painted red because they believe they will if they are painted red.


I have no idea if any of that is true. Maybe just made up by some kid i played with.

If you have heard this, let me know what its from and where i can find the rest.

Their guns DO work because they believe it, however, they can also work for non-Orks if the non-Ork believes it works.

See the Armageddon Ork Hunters(IG that use Ork weapons) for proof.

It's more or less right...
According to an in-fluff source the Orks have a latent psychic power that basically allows them to make things work through belief and the more of them there are the more potent this power is.

A lot of those fluff comments can actually be found in the ork codex.

Hmm, I hope something like this gets implemented into an ork 5th/6th edition codex, where the number of remaining orks determines Strength values, or shots fired, etc... All orks contribute to a psychic (basin?), which causes the things they make to work.

America may run on Dunkin, but Orks run on belief!

Footsloggin wrote:Hmm, I hope something like this gets implemented into an ork 5th/6th edition codex, where the number of remaining orks determines Strength values, or shots fired, etc... All orks contribute to a psychic (basin?), which causes the things they make to work.

America may run on Dunkin, but Orks run on belief!

But then people would take mobs as big as they could, which would absolutely own. But yeah, orks are very power when it comes sypchic stuff, never heard that particular comment though.

Shikamaru nara wrote:OK i started playing warhammer in 97 while i was in middle school.

I was reading through the forums and a piece of fluff popped into my head that i remember hearing back in those days.
goes something like this:


Random marine surrounded by orks or something, he grabs one of there guns, turns to fire, it doesnt go off.
Orks are the most powerfull psykers in the galaxy. they just don't know it.
There guns work because they believe they work.
There vehicle go faster painted red because they believe they will if they are painted red.


I have no idea if any of that is true. Maybe just made up by some kid i played with.

If you have heard this, let me know what its from and where i can find the rest.

Why would the Ork stop believing his gun would work because an SM had got it?

Kilkrazy wrote:Why would the Ork stop believing his gun would work because an SM had got it?

I think he means that in the hands of an Ork, the gun works fine, but a non-Ork just doesn't believe that the ramshackle piece of crap could possibly shoot, so it doesn't.

All very Zen, when you think about it. Or maybe Harry Potter and platform 9 3/4, but who's counting?

DoW

An ork-made weapon doesn't stop working just because there's no Orks around. At least, not the simple stuff like shootaz and trukks.

DogOfWar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why would the Ork stop believing his gun would work because an SM had got it?

I think he means that in the hands of an Ork, the gun works fine, but a non-Ork just doesn't believe that the ramshackle piece of crap could possibly shoot, so it doesn't.

All very Zen, when you think about it. Or maybe Harry Potter and platform 9 3/4, but who's counting?

DoW

Why would the SM try to fire the gun if he didn't think it would work? SMs are supposed to be the finest experts in the galaxy on weapons.

If the SM thinks the gun will work, and the Ork thinks the gun will work, why would it not work?

Kilkrazy wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why would the Ork stop believing his gun would work because an SM had got it?

I think he means that in the hands of an Ork, the gun works fine, but a non-Ork just doesn't believe that the ramshackle piece of crap could possibly shoot, so it doesn't.

All very Zen, when you think about it. Or maybe Harry Potter and platform 9 3/4, but who's counting?

DoW

Why would the SM try to fire the gun if he didn't think it would work? SMs are supposed to be the finest experts in the galaxy on weapons.

If the SM thinks the gun will work, and the Ork thinks the gun will work, why would it not work?

Because it's the Ork's ability to believe that makes it work, that the SM doesn't possess.

The average shoota, indeed, most Ork technology, works no matter if the Ork believes it does or not.

winnertakesall wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why would the Ork stop believing his gun would work because an SM had got it?

I think he means that in the hands of an Ork, the gun works fine, but a non-Ork just doesn't believe that the ramshackle piece of crap could possibly shoot, so it doesn't.

All very Zen, when you think about it. Or maybe Harry Potter and platform 9 3/4, but who's counting?

DoW

Why would the SM try to fire the gun if he didn't think it would work? SMs are supposed to be the finest experts in the galaxy on weapons.

If the SM thinks the gun will work, and the Ork thinks the gun will work, why would it not work?

Because it's the Ork's ability to believe that makes it work, that the SM doesn't possess.

Why does the Ork lose the ability to believe the shoota will work?

Kilkrazy wrote:Why does the Ork lose the ability to believe the shoota will work?

Cuz dem 'umies dun know da first ting 'bout Ork teknology!

Quote from the old Ork Codex (last page):

"However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colours, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work, unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Orks subconscious somehow ensure that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired."

Not that any of this makes logical sense, but one could hypothesise that an Ork's subconscious would not want the weapon to work in the hands of a Space Marine and, if the device is mechanically impossible under normal physics, then the Space Marine would probably doubt its workings as well.

DoW

Once again, as in all the other threads, I point out that this is a quote from a Magos Genetor, just about the furthest you can get from an unbiased expert on the subject (being mechanicus, and thus hideously biased against non-human technology, and a Magos Genetor, and htus not an expert on xeno technology).

It's like if you asked a young earth creationist accountant to explain the concepts of evolution as seen by Darwin (as opposed to the popular concept).

DogOfWar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why does the Ork lose the ability to believe the shoota will work?

Cuz dem 'umies dun know da first ting 'bout Ork teknology!

Quote from the old Ork Codex (last page):

"However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colours, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work, unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Orks subconscious somehow ensure that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired."

Not that any of this makes logical sense, but one could hypothesise that an Ork's subconscious would not want the weapon to work in the hands of a Space Marine and, if the device is mechanically impossible under normal physics, then the Space Marine would probably doubt its workings as well.

DoW

Why would the SM take the gun and try to use it, knowing it would not work?

Kilkrazy wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why would the Ork stop believing his gun would work because an SM had got it?

I think he means that in the hands of an Ork, the gun works fine, but a non-Ork just doesn't believe that the ramshackle piece of crap could possibly shoot, so it doesn't.

All very Zen, when you think about it. Or maybe Harry Potter and platform 9 3/4, but who's counting?

DoW

Why would the SM try to fire the gun if he didn't think it would work? SMs are supposed to be the finest experts in the galaxy on weapons.

If the SM thinks the gun will work, and the Ork thinks the gun will work, why would it not work?

DEM UMIES DON'T GOT DA POWER OF DAA WAAAAGHHH!

To put it less loudly, the stuff only works because of the Ork psychic field calld Da Waaagh, which somehow harnesses Ork belief into breaking the laws of physics.

Kilkrazy wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why does the Ork lose the ability to believe the shoota will work?

Cuz dem 'umies dun know da first ting 'bout Ork teknology!

Quote from the old Ork Codex (last page):

"However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colours, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work, unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Orks subconscious somehow ensure that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired."

Not that any of this makes logical sense, but one could hypothesise that an Ork's subconscious would not want the weapon to work in the hands of a Space Marine and, if the device is mechanically impossible under normal physics, then the Space Marine would probably doubt its workings as well.

DoW

Why would the SM take the gun and try to use it, knowing it would not work?

Maybe he doesn't know, it looks like another gun that he could use?

Why do enemy weapons work on Orks?

Why don't they just disbelieve in them?

Kilkrazy wrote:
Why would the SM take the gun and try to use it, knowing it would not work?

The space marine thought it would work as the ork had just fired it. However, he doubted that it work properly and also: the theory is that space marines do not have as powerful of a natural psychic aura as orks do (although orks don't realise it). So, the space marine sees logic that explains why it should work scientifically where an ork doesn't care and just 'believes' it will work due to him being an ork and orks being the best, this leads to the orks subconcious psychic aura meaning that the gun shoots (almost like a machine spirit within each ork).

Irrelevant, Space Marines do not produce a gestalt psychic field like Orks do.

But Ork weapons DO work in the hands of non-Orks, they don't just work because Orks believe they do. That's just a stupid leftover that may people believe in from previous editions that has long since been retconned out as nothing more than the belief of the Mechanicus who doesn't understand the scientific principles of Ork weaponry.

After reading this fluff I ask myself: If Ork believe that his gun has infinite ammo - does that mean that his gun will never get out of ammunition?

Kilkrazy wrote:Why do enemy weapons work on Orks?

Why don't they just disbelieve in them?

Becasue those weapons actually work, they have been built using proper scientific methods and logic whereas ork weapons are just ramshackle and are probably missing bits here and there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:After reading this fluff I ask myself: If Ork believe that his gun has infinite ammo - does that mean that his gun will never get out of ammunition?

No, it's like a machine spirit controlled by each ork in a way. it will allow the gun to fire even though a bit is missing but cannot just magically produce bullets. Like a machine spirit in a land raider can atke control of a gun even though there's no one to fire it but if the gun runs out of ammo that's it, it's also believed that some machine spirits have even driven land raiders: it can drive it without a driver but if it runs out of fuel that's it.

Melissia wrote:Irrelevant, Space Marines do not produce a gestalt psychic field like Orks do.

But Ork weapons DO work in the hands of non-Orks, they don't just work because Orks believe they do. That's just a stupid leftover that may people believe in from previous editions that has long since been retconned out as nothing more than the belief of the Mechanicus who doesn't understand the scientific principles of Ork weaponry.

No, it's not as simple as that. Granted, this is from that same Magos Genetor, but this is ALL conjecture anyway so I don't see how that's an issue.

The technological anomalies that occur during Ork construction are akin to genetic mutations that occur during evolution. A Mek creates two vehicles and paints one of them red. The red vehicle, through some fluke of the manufacturing process has slightly more horsepower or a better gear ratio (etc.), giving it a genuine improvement over it's non-red fellow. The Orks then believe that it is the red paint that actually confers that better performance, because they don't truly understand the mechanical properties (remember, they are 'born' with instinctive technological understanding rather than actually learning it).

But now, because of the psychic properties of Orks, that belief then confers an improvement in performance to subsequent vehicles that do not have an actual mechanical reason for superiority, but rather just have a red paint job.

Long story short, Orks can't just believe anything and it happens, they have to see evidence of something they do not understand, and draw a logical (if incorrect) parallel which is then reinforced by their psychic powers. And not ALL Ork weapons are nonfunctional (meaning they would work perfectly fine in the hands of a human) but many probably are because they don't truly understand why they work. Sometimes they just get lucky and it's a perfectly functional weapon.

DoW

No, Orks really DO make a vehicle travel faster when painting it red-- IF Orks are riding in it or driving it. Why is this? The gestalt psychic field produced by every Ork just for living causes the vehicle to be produce more horsepower. It has nothing to do with the internal design of the vehicle. The vehicle works or doesn't work on its own. But it works a little bit BETTER when Orks paint it red and use it.

I say this because Orks can take an Imperial vehicle, daub it with blood, and then it drives faster than if they hadn't.

The gestalt psychic field behaves strangely-- based off of the various BL novels and Dark Heresy, it does not appear to be effected by Blanks, for example, and it isn't a true psychic power and isn't detectable by the most common methods used to detect psychic powers. This is something that's consistent across the lore, probably because the writers never really considered it, but it can still be considered canon.

I pretty much agree wrote:But now, because of the psychic properties of Orks, that belief then confers an improvement in performance to subsequent vehicles that do not have an actual mechanical reason for superiority, but rather just have a red paint job.

I think we're saying the same thing, albeit in different ways.

Either way, GW may love Space Marines like a fat kid loves cake, but with the juxtaposition of humour, carnage, mystery, slapstick and menace, they certainly make Orks one of the more interesting races in the 40k universe.

DoW

One of? It's probably the most unique and interesting creation GW has ever produced.

If an Ork soota shoots in a forest and no ones around to hear it does it go DakkaDakkaDakka?

No, it goes DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

Yeah, as I've said before, the only fluff source that mentions this comes from an Imperial, who would never let anyone think that Orks are actually semi intelligent enough to build functioning technology.

Kind of like what I've heard about Guard, where people are told that a Lasgun is better than a Tau Railgun. Its all Imperium Propaganda.