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So, this is one of the random effects the GK player rolls when assaulted or assaulting: Take a initiative test. If you fail, that model attacks his own squad. So, even though the squad majority is a initiative 4, a Sargeant with a fist needs to roll a 1 or he attacks his squad? Am I reading this right?!

the sarg strikes at I1, his initiave is not actually 1

for the same reason models with thunder hammers dont automatically die to jaws of the world wolf and such.

Thanks, that was a real scare for a second.

Grundz is correct.

Just for completeness, "Psyk-out Grenades" and "Psychotrope Grenades" are two different things. I believe the ones that have a randomized, hallucinogenic effect (to which you are referring) are the Psychotrope Grenades.

DoW

Further question - the idea came to me from DogOfWar's post:

Say a unit is equipped with psyk-out grenades AND psychotroke grenades. Said unit assaults a psyker (tyranid hive tyrant, in this case). Would the tyrant's I test from the psychotroke grenades be I1 since the psyk-out grenades drop psyker's initiative? Or do you always test on your base stat?

it depends, If it says "psykers strike at I 1" then no

If it says "psykers Inia Stat is reduced to 1" then maybe

Formosa wrote:it depends, If it says "psykers strike at I 1" then no

If it says "psykers Inia Stat is reduced to 1" then maybe

Agreed.

If it modifies or changes the statistic itself, then I'd say you test on that. Unless it specifically says "test on unmodified I," then you would test on whatever the statistic has become during that phase (but as Formosa says, not necessarily on what the model would strike at in H2H).

DoW

From the french version of the codex:

"[...] all daemons and psykers in the squad have an initiative of 1 until the end of the phase."

So it appears that they test psychotrope grenades at I1!

Do 6s auto fail?

6's always auto-fail

and according to the french version of the rule, yep it would be Inia 1.. nasty

And the English version. Daemons / Pskyers ARE init 1

So if the init of the unit goes down to one and all of the enemy 'come over' to the other side, does no combat occur?

Another question: If all but one of the squad 'come over' and the sole member is wiped out, do the 'turned' survivors have to make a morale check or be destroyed?

Fedral wrote:So if the init of the unit goes down to one and all of the enemy 'come over' to the other side, does no combat occur?

Another question: If all but one of the squad 'come over' and the sole member is wiped out, do the 'turned' survivors have to make a morale check or be destroyed?

you allocate wounds they cause against ALL models in the squad. After blows are struck and saves made, then the unit returns to normal to make their morale check.

GK charges your 5 man unit ---> 4 fail.
GK's + your 4 attack your own unit ---> Inflict 8 wounds
You have to allocate the wounds as normal, so if I am correct if you fail one I would assume you could choose to kill a traitor over your normal until enough fail. So as long as you don't fail 5 your guy can strike back.
You fail 3 wounds ---> 3 traitors die and your 1 guy attacks back causing no wounds
Your unit loses CC by 3 and returns to your command to take its check.

If they roll the "6" result, then they make attacks against themselves, but do so at Init 1. So your GK would attack them first, and any survivors would hit at Init 1 against their own unit.

If they have both grenades, which grenade effect resolves first ?

Psykouts seem to resolve first, as they are when you first make assault moves. Psykotropes are after all reactions /etc

nosferatu1001 wrote:Psykouts seem to resolve first, as they are when you first make assault moves. Psykotropes are after all reactions /etc

What he said.

Hmmm brain mines would be the same then, if in fact it makes you test on init 1 to resist the grenades, man you could really shred some enemy units with that.

It's another anti-mephiston item. Not only do you attack first and will likely ID him, but have a 5/6 chance that, if you dont, he isnt attacking you.

A lot like mindstrike missiles.....