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Melissia wrote:

sebster wrote:Not really, because people generally fail to understand what is meant by corporations being considered people. Outside of very particular (and admittedly very ridiculous) situations like campaign funding, the concept of corporations as people is basically a legal convenience.

I was being sarcastic anyway.

But I really do support removing the rights of corporations to donate to political campaigns... too bad it'll never happen.

Feel the earth's plates shift? We're in utter agreement. The concept of corporations having rights under the Constitution is both silly and relatively new.

dogma wrote:

halonachos wrote:
And last but not least some people need to stop complaining and realize how relatively good they have it.

Is that an inclusive statement?

I normally ignore your remarks, but yes it is inclusive. I have it fething fantastic right now and I am utterly and completely happy.

No this is not me.

halonachos wrote:
And last but not least some people need to stop complaining and realize how relatively good they have it.

"You there, coal miners, don't unionize. Stop complaining and be grateful that you're not OUTRIGHT slaves!"

I normally ignore your remarks, but yes it is inclusive. I have it fething fantastic right now and I am utterly and completely happy.

No this is not me.

"Fellow members of Club We've Got Ours, I'd like to introduce you to our host. He's Got His, and I've Got Mine, meet the Decline."

I don't think anyone (other than Wall Street) honestly wants a handout. I don't. I really don't. I worked my ass off to get where I am, and I make well above median salary for the area I live in.

However, I'm troubled by the fact that I get a cost of living increase below inflation while I watch my health care plan get both worse and more expensive at the same time. I'm troubled when I see half my coworkers get outsourced and board members get bonuses and raises at the same time. I'm troubled that I have friends who have college degrees and student loans to pay off and they can't find a job that pays more than $35k-$40k due to the fact that, while there's plenty of work for someone with a CS degree, non of it pays enough to be worth it anymore. I'm troubled by the fact that copyright and patent law is so flying rodent gak insane that it's more of a risk to innovate than it is a reward for anyone who isn't an already established corporation that has the war chest to pull it off. I'm troubled that you can't really make a lot of money without already having a lot of money.

I know a lot of those things aren't the loudest things that are shouted out about by the OWS crowd, but they're the problems I see.

I'm not even necessarily angry for myself. I'm angry for everyone else.

So you have friends who chose degrees that have low starting incomes. I chose a degree that will allow me to start at $50,000 a year. That's not my fault they chose something that is not as marketable as mine.

I chose a job that will most likely never be outsourced because it requires hands on work that can't be done over the phone or over the net.

Also, did you even look at the guy's full spiel? It says that he joined the military not once, but twice. If you want a job with benefits and your degree isn't working out then try for the military. Is it hard work, yes, is it worth it, you bet.

I have seen plenty of military photos of guys holding papers that say they are the 1% of the 99% who are getting off of their asses to do something for themselves.

As far as jobs being outsourced, I will agree that the idea ticks me off and I think that corporations should be punished for doing so. But choosing jobs that can't be easily outsourced is also an option. For example, it would be awfully difficult for an Indian in India to drive an 18-wheeler across the country.




"We are the 99%!"- sent via iPad(supports 1%ers who own and run Apple) on Facebook(supports even more 1%ers).

halonachos wrote:So you have friends who chose degrees that have low starting incomes. I chose a degree that will allow me to start at $50,000 a year. That's not my fault they chose something that is not as marketable as mine.

It sure seemed like a lucrative field at the time. I guess stuff can change in the time it takes to get a degree.

I chose a job that will most likely never be outsourced because it requires hands on work that can't be done over the phone or over the net.

And I hope, for your sake, that they never find a way to do so.

Also, did you even look at the guy's full spiel? It says that he joined the military not once, but twice. If you want a job with benefits and your degree isn't working out then try for the military. Is it hard work, yes, is it worth it, you bet.

I think that when the most lucrative opportunity you have available to you is military service, then there is something wrong.

I have seen plenty of military photos of guys holding papers that say they are the 1% of the 99% who are getting off of their asses to do something for themselves.

As far as jobs being outsourced, I will agree that the idea ticks me off and I think that corporations should be punished for doing so. But choosing jobs that can't be easily outsourced is also an option. For example, it would be awfully difficult for an Indian in India to drive an 18-wheeler across the country.

And if you follow that out to its natural conclusion, instead of being a nation of producers and doers, we become a country of soldiers, truck drivers, plumbers, and investment bankers.


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halonachos wrote:
"We are the 99%!"- sent via iPad(supports 1%ers who own and run Apple) on Facebook(supports even more 1%ers).

But that's just the thing. They've made it impossible NOT to support the 1%. You didn't even have to take the dig at Apple to do it. You can't communicate online without supporting them somehow. I can't even buy foamcore board to make a sign without doing it.

We have people who work in shoe factories because they wanted a job. We have job openings for picking berries that people don't take because they think they are too good for that job. No job should ever be deemed too degrading to someone who doesn't hav one, barring things that are currently illegal.

If we have a nation of soliders then we could reap benefits as the world's largest PMC, think about it. We fight overseas for other countries anyways, might as well prosper as a nation for doing so.

Also military service offers a lot of benefits but is high risk. First and foremost is medical care, second is housing, and third is food. Its a job were you can possibly learn a trade and should you make it out alive you can use the GI Bill to pay for your college tuition.

Most companies favor veterans for two reasons, good PR and it shows a level of dedication that most employers are looking for.

If you don't believe that there is an american operated shoe factory and company then I'll tell you that its New Balance and they are awesomely american. They're so American they make shoes with the emblems of various military branches on them and give them to the military as discounted or even free shoes.

Halo: anything can be outsourced given the right technology.


Even sex! No, I'm not linking to that.

halonachos wrote:We have people who work in shoe factories because they wanted a job. We have job openings for picking berries that people don't take because they think they are too good for that job. No job should ever be deemed too degrading to someone who doesn't hav one, barring things that are currently illegal.

I completely agree, no job should be deemed to degrading. I've worked at McDonald's before, because it beat going hungry. Coming from that perspective though, people don't think they're too good for those jobs. I really don't think so. People find those jobs unsustainable to continuing to live. Assuming you can get 40 hours at minimum wage at McDonalds, you get 15,080/yr pretax. This is assuming that minimum wage is 7.25. This is assuming they'll even give you full-time hours. I am not sure you can really live even a humble lifestyle from that. Matter of fact, I know you can't. While there's a guy trying to support his family off of that job because he got laid off doing whatever else, there's a CEO who figured out that if he re-leases his Mercedes from the car company every 30 days, he never has to legally put a license plate on it.

If we have a nation of soliders then we could reap benefits as the world's largest PMC, think about it. We fight overseas for other countries anyways, might as well prosper as a nation for doing so.

Also military service offers a lot of benefits but is high risk. First and foremost is medical care, second is housing, and third is food. Its a job were you can possibly learn a trade and should you make it out alive you can use the GI Bill to pay for your college tuition.

Most companies favor veterans for two reasons, good PR and it shows a level of dedication that most employers are looking for.

Oh yes, all of this is true. It doesn't make it good though. Maybe I'm just a pinko, but I've never been a big fan of the 'police the world' mentality.

If you don't believe that there is an american operated shoe factory and company then I'll tell you that its New Balance and they are awesomely american. They're so American they make shoes with the emblems of various military branches on them and give them to the military as discounted or even free shoes.

That's pretty awesome actually. Thanks for pointing that out. My old pair of shoes is worn out and I needed to look into getting a new pair.

I was unemployed for a good long stretch in 2008, and I looked for any kind of work I could get. I was a science graduate with very good grades who had been in a PhD program. I literally applied for any work going. I didn't even get rejection letters from most of them.
Eventually, I got a job as mall security by lying on my CV and pretending to have no qualifications. That took me about 8 months. And the job lasted another 5, before the company bailed on me, leaving me unemployed for another 3 months. The entire time I didn't get a cent from the state because I had been a student previously so had paid no tax, the company was working for had been cheating their tax so I hadn't paid any in while working there either (they just upped and left, no explanation, never answered calls).

After that I took a job working in a Kindergarten for nearly a year before paying out to get teacher training, which is my current employment. Though I had to emigrate to get this job.
Many of my friends with degrees and graduate degrees in sensible fields can tell similar stories.
Meanwhile my state pays millions in bond yields to the corrupt financial institution that brought down the irish economy almost on it's own, forced into it by the ECB to prevent contagion spreading to the irresponsible investors in France, Germany and the UK. My nieces are being educated in a system that is being systematically stripped bare of resources and are saddled with the private debts of irresponsible traders and investors who have escaped the consequences of their poor judgements. My parents are forced out of retirement by pension cuts and will now most likely have to work until they physically can not any more despite paying into pension schemes their whole lives. My brother has had to emigrate. My sister will soon follow. 80% of my college friends are in the same boat. None of us were ever rich, all of us were fairly hard working. None of us are unwashed entitled hippies.
The system is broken. Good on OWS for at least shouting about it.

Da Boss wrote:
Meanwhile my state pays millions in bond yields to the corrupt financial institution that brought down the irish economy almost on it's own, forced into it by the ECB to prevent contagion spreading to the irresponsible investors in France, Germany and the UK.

Sadly, after they're done shredding the UK, rather than sit in the mess they've created, they'll just leave individuals living there for greener pastures:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8363584/HSBC-reveals-plans-to-quit-London-for-Hong-Kong.html

Why?

"Iain Mackay, finance director of HSBC, blamed the bonus tax in Britain and France and the large swathes of new bank regulations for the higher costs."

Actions have consequences. Over regulate an entity and they leave if they can.

Under regulate them and you get the great recession.

Da Boss wrote:Under regulate them and you get the great recession.

That was coming anyway. As refernced by Greece, Italy, Portgual, Spain...

All countries with weak regulation. You can add Ireland to that list too.

Da Boss wrote:All countries with weak regulation. You can add Ireland to that list too.

And when you drive the banks out - killing those jobs permanently, how is that going to help unemployment again?

Live in the UK, went to university, left university, worked in a bar, got a job in London working in an IT company, left, worked in family business, left again, now work for major network hardware manufacturer providing 2nd/3rd line network architecture support, have a beautiful 2 year old daughter.

I'm 28... life is what you make of it, don't begrudge others taking a little from the state when they need it, don't be afraid to take help when YOU need it. Kick the living gak out of anyone who abuses the system. nuff said.

That's a point, but the banks weren't exactly doing us a whole lot of good as is.

Basically, the banks are amoral and not to be trusted. If they leave, feth 'em. I don't need an amoral entity with that kind of power in my state.

I'm pretty resigned though. I doubt OWS will change a damn thing, though I do salute the effort. I'm just gonna try and make it through.

Da Boss wrote:That's a point, but the banks weren't exactly doing us a whole lot of good as is.

Basically, the banks are amoral and not to be trusted. If they leave, feth 'em. I don't need an amoral entity with that kind of power in my state.

I'm pretty resigned though. I doubt OWS will change a damn thing, though I do salute the effort. I'm just gonna try and make it through.

Even if it changes nothing, it's still helped people see that they're not alone in being angry. That's a step in the right direction, I think.

That's a point, but the banks weren't exactly doing us a whole lot of good as is.
***people were employed. Loans were being made.

Basically, the banks are amoral and not to be trusted. If they leave, feth 'em. I don't need an amoral entity with that kind of power in my state.
***Everyone's amoral. "Its just business" is practically a term of art. In the mean time without banks you besically have a Mideval economy.

I'm pretty resigned though. I doubt OWS will change a damn thing, though I do salute the effort. I'm just gonna try and make it through.
***I don't. They are nattering nabobs and the exact people you DON'T want protesting whatever it is exactly they are protesting.

Unsustainable, irresponsible loans that have left the country in the worst recession it has experienced.

Everyone isn't amoral. You might like to believe it, but it isn't true. I want to discourage damaging amoral practices from the businesses in my country. They can do business properly of feth off. Someone else will take their place.

As to your last point, I'm no fan of crusty hippies. But I don't hold with your stance either.

Da Boss wrote:Unsustainable, irresponsible loans that have left the country in the worst recession it has experienced.

***So no loans are better? It takes two to tango on the loan front and news flash, outside of finance the UK aint got gak for industry.

Everyone isn't amoral. You might like to believe it, but it isn't true. I want to discourage damaging amoral practices from the businesses in my country. They can do business properly of feth off. Someone else will take their place.
***If you don't like it you class it as amoral.

As to your last point, I'm no fan of crusty hippies. But I don't hold with your stance either.
***Well thats just your fault for not understanding the greatness of all things Frazzled.

Frazzled wrote:

Da Boss wrote:All countries with weak regulation. You can add Ireland to that list too.

And when you drive the banks out - killing those jobs permanently, how is that going to help unemployment again?

As opposed to under-regulation causing them to drive jobs away that way?

Either way it's job loss. At least with better, more intelligent regulation, it'll benefit the consumer through forcing companies to be honest.

And no, many big companies aren't going to be honest without essentially a gun being put to their head.

Man, you think the UK has gak all industry?
Ireland is way worse. We've basically got inefficient agriculture and...ummm, american multinationals. Little to no homegrown industry. If you guys ever pull out we'll be back to a nearly pre-industrial economy.

Da Boss wrote: Man, you think the UK has gak all industry?
Ireland is way worse. We've basically got inefficient agriculture and...ummm, american multinationals. Little to no homegrown industry. If you guys ever pull out we'll be back to a nearly pre-industrial economy.

I didn't say Ireland is better. I did not even say the USA is better (Texas of course is better, but thats just our utter dominance of fine queso).

Nah I know you didn't.

Depressing thing is, things COULD be better, but at home anyway, support for any sort of entrepreneur outside of the traditional industries is non-existent.

I feel that I should move to texas. From what frazzled has mentioned thus far, I think my manlyness would fit in rather well.

I kind of wonder if we all shouldn't move to Texas. Seems like quite the paradise.

Frag wrote:I feel that I should move to texas. From what frazzled has mentioned thus far, I think my manlyness would fit in rather well.

You're welcome if you make it through the Survivor Texas entrance exam. Only Aussies get auto entrance as they pretty live on a death world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:I kind of wonder if we all shouldn't move to Texas. Seems like quite the paradise.

All the wild fires a man could hope for.

Frazzled wrote:

Frag wrote:I feel that I should move to texas. From what frazzled has mentioned thus far, I think my manlyness would fit in rather well.

You're welcome if you make it through the Survivor Texas entrance exam. Only Aussies get auto entrance as they pretty live on a death world.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:I kind of wonder if we all shouldn't move to Texas. Seems like quite the paradise.

All the wild fires a man could hope for.

HEAVEN. ill grab my axe

Texan tourists are always the least impressed with other places.

We had a series of jokes about it.
An Englishman, Frenchman, Mexican, and Texan were flying across country on a small plane when the pilot comes on the loud speaker and says " We're having mechanical problems and the only way we can make it to the next airport is for 3 of you to open the door and jump, at least one of you can survive" The four open the door and look out below. The Englishman takes a deep breath and hollers "God Save The Queen" and jumps. The Frenchman gets really inspired and hollers "Viva La France" and he also jumps. This really pumps up the Texan so he hollers "Remember the Alamo" and he grabs the Mexican and throws him out of the plane.

or
A Texan farmer goes to Australia for a vacation. There he meets an Aussie farmer and gets talking. The Aussie shows off his big wheat field and the Texan says, “Oh! We have wheat fields that are at least twice as large”.
Then they walk around the ranch a little and the Aussie shows off his herd of cattle. The Texan immediately says, ” We have longhorns that are at least twice as large as your cows”.
The conversation has, meanwhile, almost died when the Texan sees a herd of kangaroos hopping through the field. He asks, “And what are those”?
The Aussie asks with an incredulous look, “Don’t you have any grasshoppers in Texas”?

Seems it's an international stereotype.