Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Paul isn't really terribly right wing, the gay marriage thing alone is enough to get him kicked to leftist land with the modern Republican party it seems.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Paul isn't really terribly right wing, the gay marriage thing alone is enough to get him kicked to leftist land with the modern Republican party it seems.
Naw... he's a righty... but the wimminz loooove him...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/15 18:27:19
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Paul isn't really terribly right wing, the gay marriage thing alone is enough to get him kicked to leftist land with the modern Republican party it seems.
Naw... he's a righty... but the wimminz loooove him...
Ron Paul, not Paul Ryan
Feth that's going to get annoying XD
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Paul isn't really terribly right wing, the gay marriage thing alone is enough to get him kicked to leftist land with the modern Republican party it seems.
Naw... he's a righty... but the wimminz loooove him...
[/spoiler]
Ron Paul, not Paul Ryan
Feth that's going to get annoying XD
Oops... my bad.
Yeah... that's true about Rand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/15 18:32:11
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
AustonT wrote:ORLY, give me the long sighted version.
Honestly its not worth the discussion.
Here is the thing. No amount of conversation is going to move you from your mindset. When I debate people in forums like this its to change the mind of the moderates reading the thread.
The thing is, moderates don't think that "the Democrat electorate told the rest of us they could stomach a black man before a white woman in the 2008 primary" The people that believe such a thing represent a small percentage.
In regards to your other comments. I was polite, your responses were sarcastic and hostile. Welcome to my ignore list.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Paul isn't really terribly right wing, the gay marriage thing alone is enough to get him kicked to leftist land with the modern Republican party it seems.
Ron Paul is libertarian. He also believes that heroin should be legal.
Hes at the bottom right of this graph. In comparison, Romney is at the top right of this graph.
Spoiler:
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/15 18:50:48
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Paul isn't really terribly right wing
... let's see, opposes gay marriage, wants to ban ALL abortions even when it endangers the mother, wants to cut down on many forms of social safety net except for the military and privatize the rest, is extremely evangelistic, speaks out nonsense about "small government" and cutting the deficit despite the fact that he will do nothing of the sort...
Sounds right wing to me.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Paul isn't really terribly right wing
... let's see, opposes gay marriage, wants to ban ALL abortions even when it endangers the mother, wants to cut down on many forms of social safety net except for the military and privatize the rest, is extremely evangelistic, speaks out nonsense about "small government" and cutting the deficit despite the fact that he will do nothing of the sort...
Sounds right wing to me.
You do know he's talking about Rand Paul... right? That crazy uncle? or... am I misunderstanding here?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/15 19:00:33
Wait, that's a good point, which paul are we talking about this time?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Commentary Magazine wrote:Among public figures who claim to bear the mark of Rand’s influence are Clarence Thomas, Oliver Stone, Cal Ripken, Jr., and Hillary Clinton. In his youth Alan Greenspan was an acolyte who contributed essays to her collections of Objectivist thought
Chicago Sun-Times wrote:Greenspan's flawed memoir reveals a closet Democrat; Greenspan does not conceal contempt for both Bushes.
Yes and yes. and I suppose you can add Oliver Stone, he's supposed to be some kind of leftist.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Hillary Clinton read Rand in college, like many high achieving young women. Greenspan supported massive deregulation of the finance sector. Let me know when you're back from Mars.
One of us cited respected sources the other one is basically just giving his opinion. Especially in the case of Greenspan. The CST isn't exactly well known for its conservative bias.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Paul isn't really terribly right wing
... let's see, opposes gay marriage, wants to ban ALL abortions even when it endangers the mother, wants to cut down on many forms of social safety net except for the military and privatize the rest, is extremely evangelistic, speaks out nonsense about "small government" and cutting the deficit despite the fact that he will do nothing of the sort...
Sounds right wing to me.
You do know he's talking about Rand Paul... right? That crazy uncle? or... am I misunderstanding here?
I think he was talking about Ron Paul.
Ron Paul is a very interesting political figure. While some of his ideas are out there (legalizing heroin, going back to the gold standard), I think he would make a very good president.
During the 2008 debates, he was the only person on the stage who understood was 'blowback' in foreign policy terms. Rudy Giuliani got really pissed at Ron Paul for stating "We caused 911 by supporting Afghanistan the 80s and then pulling out after the Russians were defeated" during that debate. Giuliani refused to believe or understand what 'blowback' is.
I am what most people consider left of center, yet I would vote for Ron Paul over Obama any day of the week.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Paul isn't really terribly right wing
... let's see, opposes gay marriage, wants to ban ALL abortions even when it endangers the mother, wants to cut down on many forms of social safety net except for the military and privatize the rest, is extremely evangelistic, speaks out nonsense about "small government" and cutting the deficit despite the fact that he will do nothing of the sort...
Sounds right wing to me.
You do know he's talking about Rand Paul... right? That crazy uncle? or... am I misunderstanding here?
I think he was talking about Ron Paul.
Ron Paul is a very interesting political figure. While some of his ideas are out there (legalizing heroin, going back to the gold standard), I think he would make a very good president.
During the 2008 debates, he was the only person on the stage who understood was 'blowback' in foreign policy terms. Rudy Giuliani got really pissed at Ron Paul for stating "We caused 911 by supporting Afghanistan the 80s and then pulling out after the Russians were defeated" during that debate. Giuliani refused to believe or understand what 'blowback' is.
I am what most people consider left of center, yet I would vote for Ron Paul over Obama any day of the week.
Ron Paul. see... we can't keep it straight!
I'd vote for Ron too... but, he'll never get enough votes.
AustonT wrote:One of us cited respected sources the other one is basically just giving his opinion. Especially in the case of Greenspan. The CST isn't exactly well known for its conservative bias.
Wow really? Commentary, the neocon flagship organ, recycling that often-repeated chestnut about Hillary Clinton having read Ayn Rand before is tantamount to calling her a Randian? (Protip: Young women often mistake Rand for a feminist.) Can you find any source of Hillary Clinton herself claiming Randian ideas? Or even an argument as to how her policy positions are Randian? And Alan Greenspan is well known for encouraging massive deregulation in favor of markets working themselves out. Can you possibly spin that as a leftist position? Since when does having contempt for a Bush make you a closet Democrat? If that's the case, then I suppose 99% of all Republicans were "closet Democrats" in 1991 and 2007? The source of a comment does not make it any less ridiculous.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/15 20:00:11
Amy Goodman wrote:Paul Ryan has become a Tea Party favorite for pushing a controversial budget and economic vision, marked by deep cutbacks to the social safety net coupled with lower tax rates. Ryan has also proposed cutting food stamps for as many as 10 million Americans, cutting funds for programs likes Meals on Wheels, eliminating Pell Grants for more than a million students. On the tax front, Ryan has proposed a plan to slash taxes for the wealthiest Americans while raising taxes on some of the poor. The New York Times reports, by one statistical count, Ryan is the most conservative vice-presidential nominee in more than a hundred years.
Heather McGhee wrote: ... essentially, in 2050, there would be virtually no more federal government, outside of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and defense. No more. It’s Grover Norquist’s vision for shrinking the size of our federal government down to the size where you could drown it in a bathtub. So, no more Federal Aviation, no more investments in transportation, roads, consumer protection—essentially, eliminating the federal government. The idea that we would have that at the top of our presidential ticket is quite astonishing.
murdog wrote:Anyone care to comment on this? Is it accurate?
Amy Goodman wrote:Paul Ryan has become a Tea Party favorite for pushing a controversial budget and economic vision, marked by deep cutbacks to the social safety net coupled with lower tax rates. Ryan has also proposed cutting food stamps for as many as 10 million Americans, cutting funds for programs likes Meals on Wheels, eliminating Pell Grants for more than a million students. On the tax front, Ryan has proposed a plan to slash taxes for the wealthiest Americans while raising taxes on some of the poor. The New York Times reports, by one statistical count, Ryan is the most conservative vice-presidential nominee in more than a hundred years.
Heather McGhee wrote: ... essentially, in 2050, there would be virtually no more federal government, outside of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and defense. No more. It’s Grover Norquist’s vision for shrinking the size of our federal government down to the size where you could drown it in a bathtub. So, no more Federal Aviation, no more investments in transportation, roads, consumer protection—essentially, eliminating the federal government. The idea that we would have that at the top of our presidential ticket is quite astonishing.
whembly wrote:They're all politians... they all "flip-flop"... I never understand why there's so much angst about this. People change their mind all the time.
Speaking of Ron Paul -- he has not "flip-flop"d over issues. The man stands up for what he believes in.
whembly wrote:They're all politians... they all "flip-flop"... I never understand why there's so much angst about this. People change their mind all the time.
Speaking of Ron Paul -- he has not "flip-flop"d over issues. The man stands up for what he believes in.
Eh... more than most polititians that's probably true.
I know he wasn't consistent with his "states' rights" position.
Speaking of Ron Paul -- he has not "flip-flop"d over issues. The man stands up for what he believes in.
I lost confidence in him when he said Iran should be allowed nukes.....
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Speaking of Ron Paul -- he has not "flip-flop"d over issues. The man stands up for what he believes in.
I lost confidence in him when he said Iran should be allowed nukes.....
It fits his libertarian policy. Ron Paul thinks if we don't go sticking our fingers in Iran's pie they wont bother us, even if they have nukes.
The problem, of course, is that we have a history of already having stuck our fingers in Iran's pie.
If your nation was surrounded by 80 military bases of a traditionally unfriendly foreign power you'd probably want nukes too right? Honestly all having nukes does for Iran is enter them in to the bigger M.A.D equation. Say Iran gets nukes with a couple mid-range ICBMs, sure they have them but are they actually in any way useful? They could attack Israel, and get nuked out of existence by everyone else, attack the US/West and get nuked out of existence by everyone else, or if they get attacked they can nuke themselves out of existence.
It's kinda like going in to a bar where it's understood that fist and knife fights are okay, but if you pull a gun, everyone else in the bar with a gun will immediately shoot you no matter what side they might have been rooting for originally.
I personally admire Ron Paul's ability to distinguish from his personal beliefs and policy, as we just learned about his stance on gay marriage, RP is a big fan of traditional marriage himself, but has said over and over again that marriage is a spiritual matter between private citizens and not the affair of the government. "I don't like it, but it's not my business" which sums up a lot of libertarian policies when you think about it.
Edit: and serious applause for Paul's speeches on blowback! Between the book Charlie Wilson's War, a couple others on that time period and some of the Ron Paul material on US interference with the middle east in the 80s it seems pretty clear to me that we definitely stuck our foot in the hornet's nest long before the Gulf War.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/15 22:40:05
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Amy Goodman wrote:Paul Ryan has become a Tea Party favorite for pushing a controversial budget and economic vision, marked by deep cutbacks to the social safety net coupled with lower tax rates. Ryan has also proposed cutting food stamps for as many as 10 million Americans, cutting funds for programs likes Meals on Wheels, eliminating Pell Grants for more than a million students. On the tax front, Ryan has proposed a plan to slash taxes for the wealthiest Americans while raising taxes on some of the poor.
Up to this point, it's all pretty correct.
I don't know or care much aout how conservative he is, though it is certainly true that he is very much a neocon anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
labmouse42 wrote:
whembly wrote:They're all politians... they all "flip-flop"... I never understand why there's so much angst about this. People change their mind all the time.
Speaking of Ron Paul -- he has not "flip-flop"d over issues. The man stands up for what he believes in.
He's flip-flopped around gay marriage.
He supports denying gay marriage when it benefits him to look more conservative, and says that he thinks government should get out of marriage when it benefits him to look more libertarian.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/16 00:05:45
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Oops... my bad.
