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Ouze wrote: Yeah, I know that while I am complaining, some definitely have it worse. DE sure were in the wilderness a long time there, and then you have SoB.
Orks have spent very long periods where entire units from their book have not had miniatures. I'd even argue that they don't really have Buggies and Deffkoptaz at the moment.
The Forgebane booklet must have gone to print a really long time ago, because the Ad Mech units in it haven't even been updated per Chapter Approved; their points totals are all just copy-pasted directly out of the codex. Between the Necron codex and Chapter Approved, it's actually pretty embarassing how few of Forgebane's points costs (nevermind its actual rules) are accurate.
Ouze wrote: Yeah, I know that while I am complaining, some definitely have it worse. DE sure were in the wilderness a long time there, and then you have SoB.
Orks have spent very long periods where entire units from their book have not had miniatures. I'd even argue that they don't really have Buggies and Deffkoptaz at the moment.
[last one being trivial conversion to buggy if you shorten it, move gunner up, and remove rear platform, something very much expected in this particular army]
By the exact same standard, Marines don't have say Bike/Attack Bike or Techmarine, or a lot of other units, yet if you listen to xeno complains about zillion Imperial releases, surely flagship GW range doesn't have similar situation as the oppressed one?
Ouze wrote: I wish I could get excited about this, but I know damn well there is only going to be a single new model: the plastic clampack Cryptek that was released for Forgebane.
Kind of lame that in terms of model support from GWS, Necrons have gotten a single new model from 2011-2018 (the plastic Overlord), will now get a second one, and presumably that's it until 9th edition - so functionally 2 single character models over nearly a decade.
Certainly not holding my breath for FW to fill in any gaps since the only models they released for IA12 were low-effort retreads of existing models you'd expect from a hobbyist with some extra bits. There is 30k Marine stuff to make, after all!
You forgot the vault which came in 2013. That said I get the point. I am surprised they didn't take the chance to do plastic flayed ones, an alternative build adding a completely new unit to the range would have changed the conversation considerably.
You're right, I sure did forget the Vault.
So far as Flayed Ones go, I'd personally settle for a hand swap conversion kit for Warriors. I feel comfortable enough rolling super thin green stuff to do the skin. I know I'm being a cheap date by saying that though.
Ouze wrote: Yeah, I know that while I am complaining, some definitely have it worse. DE sure were in the wilderness a long time there, and then you have SoB.
Orks have spent very long periods where entire units from their book have not had miniatures. I'd even argue that they don't really have Buggies and Deffkoptaz at the moment.
While this is true, I think it's at least a little different than Orks. Out of all of 40k, for them looting or scratchbuilding is the most viable option. Obviously "you can just build a buggy" isn't the same as having a nice plastic model release, and I'm not arguing that, but it's a lot easier to scratchbuild a buggy or loot a Rhino and have it look thematically correct then it is to scratchbuild a character model for pretty much any other army - even a relatively simple conversion like Flayed Ones has some pretty fiddly hands and I think most come out quite poorly, generally.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/24 02:58:32
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Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
That's a good point, but I'd argue that it could create a self-perpetuating cycle.
"There are no models for these Ork units therefore newer players shy away from them so no one buys the Orks so we don't make models for their missing units therefore new players shy away..."
And so on.
It's galling when the Ork models they do release are just so magnificent. I think the Nob kit, the Meganob kit and especially the Flash Gitz kit (of which I might own 6 or 8 boxes... I can't remember!) are simply incredible. And whilst I don't think many people like it, I think the Morka/Gorkanaut is very cool.
Please GW! Release more Ork minis. They're always great fun, and you include fantastic modular modelling opportunities right there on the sprue.
Wait... wasn't this a Necron thread? Sorry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/24 03:00:23
It means we get a codex with some strong options that should help us be moderately competitive, though also includes some sadly lackluster options that will hopefully be improved in later iterations.
Reanimation Protocols is still a sore point, but the rest of our "core" rules (dynasty codes, warlord traits, and relics) range from good to great.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/24 05:53:48
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's a good point, but I'd argue that it could create a self-perpetuating cycle.
"There are no models for these Ork units therefore newer players shy away from them so no one buys the Orks so we don't make models for their missing units therefore new players shy away..."
And so on.
Battle Sisters? Some Chaos Marine units? Dark Eldar before the revamp? I don't think it's a matter of "could create" with GW. It's just a fundamental flaw in their approach, chasing ever bigger and newer things without seeing to a solid foundation for an army first.
Orks got a good and large model update with the last codex, but years of neglect still show holes in their range that are, for the most part, not there in the later armies like Tau and Necrons that were (more or less) born into the plastic age.
In the specific case of Orks, something else may play into it as well. Now that they're done orcs with different physique in Age of Sigmar, abandoning the old gorilla back for a straighter, full on muscled back, they might not want to commit making old style models even in 40k.
It means we get a codex with some strong options that should help us be moderately competitive, though also includes some sadly lackluster options that will hopefully be improved in later iterations.
Reanimation Protocols is still a sore point, but the rest of our "core" rules (dynasty codes, warlord traits, and relics) range from good to great.
Reanimation protocols are the crucial part for me. Unchanged from the index, I have no desire to play Necrons. I still remember the last time reanimation protocols could be canceled out by wiping out a unit, and it was not a lot of fun to play, never even getting to use my special rules. It wasn't even particularly fun for my opponents either, because at some point it boiled down to, can they kill ten Praetorians in one turn or not. Most games were decided by that.
As far as I'm concerned it either makes the rule unnecessary or forces you into specific unit configurations. 8th ed has enough of that already. I don't need my army's primary special rule to make it worse.
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Yeah I'm really not feeling this codex so far which is a shame because I really enjoyed necrons in 7th edition. Now I'm struggling to see past lists of maxed out squads of warriors and immortals which is a throw back to the bad old days of phase out.
Lychguard are a cool unit but at 34 points per model despite getting worse since last edition (4++ instead of 3++) they are just too expensive. Ditto wraiths and the monolith. If I want a low model count army I'll run my custodes because at least they are resilient enough that the low model count isn't as big a deal.
Reanimation protocols is the Necrons thing. It's what makes them who they are and if you're rarely getting to use it then really what's the point?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/24 09:43:29
Superglue and paper make excellent flayed flesh for draping flayed ones. That how I did the ones in my gallery, and it’s dang easy to do.
Since I stared in 2011, Necrons have recieved about the same model support as everyone else except sisters and Space Marines. Thank goodness we aren’t where the sisters are (though I’m hopeful) and it would be foolish to expect the same treatment as space marines.
I think that this will be a good codex, not broken but good. Skilled players have a lot of tools, and we won’t have builds designated by broken model rules.
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I've played three games with the leaked codex and I haven't really settled into anything yet, but it's definitely not a book you can just derp your way to victory with. Brute force just won't do it against a decent opponent. I'm 1-2 with the book and my win was the closest game I've had this edition.
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Necronmaniac05 wrote: Now I'm struggling to see past lists of maxed out squads of warriors and immortals which is a throw back to the bad old days of phase out.
I have no idea how you can have this view. Silver Tide is almost certainly not the strongest way to play the Necron codex, not even close; destroyers, tomb blades, and the tesseract vault seem to be the big standouts.
It depends. I don't want to run silver tide but for me the big fun of necrons was advancing towards your foe taking the hits and watching your guys come back. With this new RP any opponent worth their salt will just focus fire your units into oblivion then you'll never even get to make any RP rolls. The best way around that is to take larger units but that then eats into your points for other things.
I'm sure competitive players will find builds that work for them. All I'm saying Is, what made necrons fun to play for me has been utterly nerfed to the point where it's borderline unusable.
Eh, I had a couple of games where RP was absolute hell for my opponents, as there was a lot of cover blocking lines of fire, and they didn't have that much experience fighting necrons, so they didn't focus them hard enough. And this was without buffs.
I can see why they didn't improve RP in that sense, as it would have been too punishing otherwise.
Having res orb being actually useful for a one use item would have been nice though.
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CthuluIsSpy wrote: Eh, I had a couple of games where RP was absolute hell for my opponents, as there was a lot of cover blocking lines of fire, and they didn't have that much experience fighting necrons, so they didn't focus them hard enough. And this was without buffs.
I can see why they didn't improve RP in that sense, as it would have been too punishing otherwise.
Having res orb being actually useful for a one use item would have been nice though.
Yeah like the revive character strategem I was expecting a cost 2 or 3cp one for units within a certain range of a res orb.
Breotan wrote: Is it me or is the new Necron LE codex one of the most lackluster they've released to date?
They are all about the same aren't they? Basically just a slightly better made book with a fabric book mark and alternate cover art. I'd honestly be far more inclined to buy into the limited editions if they had more in them - eg several bits of high grade artwork; more lore or just - you know - more than a £25 front cover
Ouze wrote: I wish I could get excited about this, but I know damn well there is only going to be a single new model: the plastic clampack Cryptek that was released for Forgebane.
Kind of lame that in terms of model support from GWS, Necrons have gotten a single new model from 2011-2018 (the plastic Overlord), will now get a second one, and presumably that's it until 9th edition - so functionally 2 single character models over nearly a decade.
Certainly not holding my breath for FW to fill in any gaps since the only models they released for IA12 were low-effort retreads of existing models you'd expect from a hobbyist with some extra bits. There is 30k Marine stuff to make, after all!
You forgot the vault which came in 2013. That said I get the point. I am surprised they didn't take the chance to do plastic flayed ones, an alternative build adding a completely new unit to the range would have changed the conversation considerably.
You're right, I sure did forget the Vault.
So far as Flayed Ones go, I'd personally settle for a hand swap conversion kit for Warriors. I feel comfortable enough rolling super thin green stuff to do the skin. I know I'm being a cheap date by saying that though.
Ouze wrote: Yeah, I know that while I am complaining, some definitely have it worse. DE sure were in the wilderness a long time there, and then you have SoB.
Orks have spent very long periods where entire units from their book have not had miniatures. I'd even argue that they don't really have Buggies and Deffkoptaz at the moment.
While this is true, I think it's at least a little different than Orks. Out of all of 40k, for them looting or scratchbuilding is the most viable option. Obviously "you can just build a buggy" isn't the same as having a nice plastic model release, and I'm not arguing that, but it's a lot easier to scratchbuild a buggy or loot a Rhino and have it look thematically correct then it is to scratchbuild a character model for pretty much any other army - even a relatively simple conversion like Flayed Ones has some pretty fiddly hands and I think most come out quite poorly, generally.
I'll snap a photo when I am not being lazy but I used left over knives from DE wych kits and small sections of plastic rod to glue them to to make hands for my flayed ones. It works incredibly well. I didn't bother with the skin myself, but I was never a fan of the robo mohel look lol.
Breotan wrote: Is it me or is the new Necron LE codex one of the most lackluster they've released to date?
They are all about the same aren't they? Basically just a slightly better made book with a fabric book mark and alternate cover art. I'd honestly be far more inclined to buy into the limited editions if they had more in them - eg several bits of high grade artwork; more lore or just - you know - more than a £25 front cover
Agreed. It's funny because I thought the 7th edition LE codexes were really cool. Too expensive for me, but they were cool. These ones aren't even interesting.
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Several Youtube reviewers have said the same thing. As with any codex there is some trash in there, but overall the book contains some very units and combos and whilst won't be IG/Eldar tier, they will be upper mid of the pack.
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I'd say we'll be lucky to get mid tier.
...
For which I'd be grateful (I'd rather we not be constantly getting "OMG Necrons so OP" complaints every time we set up. That crap got old fast back in the Decurion days).
Several Youtube reviewers have said the same thing. As with any codex there is some trash in there, but overall the book contains some very units and combos and whilst won't be IG/Eldar tier, they will be upper mid of the pack.
Well to be fair Eldar Tier is really Dark Reaper tier, which will be nerfed. IG tier is more the victim of Soup lists than anything. That being said after the smite Nerf, DR nerf, and if they nerf Guardsmen I think it may be enough for us to crack top tier.
Well to be fair Eldar Tier is really Dark Reaper tier, which will be nerfed. IG tier is more the victim of Soup lists than anything. That being said after the smite Nerf, DR nerf, and if they nerf Guardsmen I think it may be enough for us to crack top tier.
But only with one or two specific lists.
I could imagine that the Warrior horde with some fast shooty support could do very well.
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