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Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

Oh yes absolutely.

feth mon keigh.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
Are eldar even known for being sexualy dymorphic like humans? Because armour or not, if they aren't, then the difference would be impossible to spot. But if it is, then the looks of the armour wouldn't matter, if one sex was a head smaller on avarge.


Yes, their physiology in general is similar to human genders, in things like limbs, reproductive organs, and secondary characteristics.
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Hellebore wrote:
 Shadenuat wrote:
Karol wrote:
Are eldar even known for being sexualy dymorphic like humans?

https://40k.gallery/img/40K-artwork/40K-20170921054322.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/5/58/YvraineYnnari.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20180109153414
https://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/2/25/DE_wych.png/300px-DE_wych.png

I don't know. Maybe?

Hellebore wrote:
It's really sad that we have to justify the lack of models with discussions around not being able to tell.

Hey, you can just pretend your Wraithguard have female souls.


Goddamn I love mark gibbons' work.

Jes goodwin designs illustrated by Gibbons was the highlight of my 2nd ed life.


There are so many great illustrations done by him:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/es.warhammer40k/images/2/2a/Karandras.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20120128104108



That avatar image is the one responsible for me getting into 40k.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mmmpi wrote:
Karol wrote:
Are eldar even known for being sexualy dymorphic like humans? Because armour or not, if they aren't, then the difference would be impossible to spot. But if it is, then the looks of the armour wouldn't matter, if one sex was a head smaller on avarge.


Yes, their physiology in general is similar to human genders, in things like limbs, reproductive organs, and secondary characteristics.

That I expected, but I was more thinking about grown male/female differences. Till 14-15y old you may have trouble to see who is who, when wearing protective gear. With upper class people that is never the case. Men and female are just different size and shapes, when they are older. although it would be funny to have 9 striking scorpions the size of space marines, and one that is a head and a half smaller.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Eldar are dimorphic, but less so than humans. They all seem to have tall and slim physique, and the males tend to look rather androgynous. I'm not sure there is any indication that Eldar women would be smaller and less muscular than men.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Shadenuat wrote:
Oh yes absolutely.

feth mon keigh.

I think it is true for all races. Remember when the non xenophobic tau decided it would be a great idea to invite some Dark Eldar for cultural exchange? that didn't end well. w40k race was is clear as Pepsi Zero, inter species stuff is like trying to a friend with a herd of boars.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Remember everyone: if the model doesn't have an overly feminine haircut and there's no tits on the armor, it can't be female!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

I'd even put hair aboves titties.

Hair culturally and historically was always a symbol of female power, from fairy tales to goddesses to toys and shampoo commercials. The Banshee design supports this with flowing hair on the masks - in fact, the new Banshees have even more of it than previous models. Ironically I think many took Exarch for female because of the raging hair style he has; and Yvraine has long hair, even longer on art where it looks like it comes down to her feet.

So while you can hide forms behind armor if you want, you'd better put some fluffy locks or you get Raine, who on her own book art looks feminine but the miniature is too small to make it look like the art.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

But long hair being feminine is 100% a human thing. Most pheromones produced by women come out of their head, thus longer hair "traps" more pheromones and thus makes said female appear more attractive to the senses.
As mammals, were get a lot of cues from scent.

Fun fact side note: most male pheromones come from our arm pits. Curiously, since males are generally taller than females that puts both gender's pheromones about "nose" height.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 15:40:38


   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

And humans play the game, not Eldar or Daemonettes or whatever. Not to mention all Eldar mythology is based on human one.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Galef wrote:
But long hair being feminine is 100% a human thing. Most pheromones produced by women come out of their head, thus longer hair "traps" more pheromones and thus makes said female appear more attractive to the senses.
As mammals, were get a lot of cues from scent.

Fun fact side note: most male pheromones come form our arm pits. Curiously, since males are generally taller than females that puts both gender's pheromones about "nose" height.

-

Every day I learn something new. kind of a makes sense while male boars have more hair too. Females hide with boarlings, and don't want to be smelled by predators, so have short hair. Males boars fight other boars, and animals, so they want to smell as strong as possible.

Would be cool, if GW wrote some paragraphs about how different races work, like they did for space marines. So people wouldn't get confused or draw the wrong conclusions. Or be suprised if GW suddenly says that somehting was X all along.
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

 Shadenuat wrote:
I'd even put hair aboves titties.

Hair culturally and historically was always a symbol of female power, from fairy tales to goddesses to toys and shampoo commercials. The Banshee design supports this with flowing hair on the masks - in fact, the new Banshees have even more of it than previous models. Ironically I think many took Exarch for female because of the raging hair style he has; and Yvraine has long hair, even longer on art where it looks like it comes down to her feet.

So while you can hide forms behind armor if you want, you'd better put some fluffy locks or you get Raine, who on her own book art looks feminine but the miniature is too small to make it look like the art.


If hair were power, then the male banshees would also sport beards....

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Shadenuat wrote:
And humans play the game, not Eldar or Daemonettes or whatever. Not to mention all Eldar mythology is based on human one.



Um... they are elves not humans, and they are fantasy not real, so they can be what ever you want them to be. Its little plastic toys, don't like them don;t buy them.

15k+
:harlequin: 4k
5k
Beastmen 6500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 Galef wrote:
But long hair being feminine is 100% a human thing. Most pheromones produced by women come out of their head, thus longer hair "traps" more pheromones and thus makes said female appear more attractive to the senses.
As mammals, were get a lot of cues from scent.

Fun fact side note: most male pheromones come form our arm pits. Curiously, since males are generally taller than females that puts both gender's pheromones about "nose" height.

-


This kind of sounds like pop science horse garbage at first glance, I'll be honest. A totes rigorous scientific study you guys that claims to explain a current social moray as objectively good and ideal is exactly the kind of thing that tends to get juuuuuust far enough into the peer review process for all the sensational news coverage to pick up on it.

Google scholar isn't coming up with much here. Evolutionary biology seems to mostly just point to long hair as an "Adornment trait" in most cultures corresponding to health (if you have your hair you look more youthful/healthy) wealth (long, well-kept hair means you're not out in the fields getting dirty) or sometimes wisdom (since growing long hair/long beards takes a long time).
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

Karol wrote:
Would be cool, if GW wrote some paragraphs about how different races work

Well there was that Xenobiology book or whatever, but they probably don't need it/want it now, since it can lead to all kind of weird discussions akin to Mass Effect ones.
Hell didn't rogue trader even feature half-eldar?

 Stormonu wrote:
If hair were power, then the male banshees would also sport beards

Rule 101, unless you're in ElfQuest comic, if you're an elf you don't have a beard and nobody knows how you reproduce!

 Amishprn86 wrote:
don't like them don;t buy them.

Don't like it don't read it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/16 15:52:13


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

the_scotsman wrote:
Google scholar isn't coming up with much here. Evolutionary biology seems to mostly just point to long hair as an "Adornment trait" in most cultures corresponding to health (if you have your hair you look more youthful/healthy) wealth (long, well-kept hair means you're not out in the fields getting dirty) or sometimes wisdom (since growing long hair/long beards takes a long time).
That's certainly true, but my original point is that there is a REASON that so many cultures, which evolved distinct from each other, all seem to promote long hair for women. The difference between pheromone production in men vs women and where it is produced most on their bodies respectively is very minute. But there is enough difference for it to have had an affect on our culture.

How this relates to Banshees is that I do not think GW has ever gone into detail about the dimorphism of Eldar, aside from modeling mammary glands. Males often have long hair and females are just as tall as males. So but projecting OUR perception of male/female as HUMANS, we miss the point the Aeldari are indeed Alien.

-

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/16 16:01:13


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Shadenuat wrote:
Karol wrote:
Would be cool, if GW wrote some paragraphs about how different races work

Well there was that Xenobiology book or whatever, but they probably don't need it/want it now, since it can lead to all kind of weird discussions akin to Mass Effect ones.
Hell didn't rogue trader even feature half-eldar?

 Stormonu wrote:
If hair were power, then the male banshees would also sport beards

Rule 101, unless you're in ElfQuest comic, if you're an elf you don't have a beard and nobody knows how you reproduce!

 Amishprn86 wrote:
don't like them don;t buy them.

Don't like it don't read it.


I never said i don't like it lol, you are the one upset not me.

15k+
:harlequin: 4k
5k
Beastmen 6500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

 Galef wrote:
but projecting OUR perception of male/female as HUMANS, we miss the point the Aeldari are indeed Alien

Eldar are Alien, but miniatures are made to get a particular response, like feeling of strength or brutality, fear or ugliness, lethality and elegance and yes, masculinity or femininity.

Cut Banshee red manes and see if they look as striking and powerful without them.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I never said i don't like it lol, you are the one upset not me.

Why do you care what I feel anyway? I have my mom for this.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/16 16:10:42


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




The norm for gender dimorphism in fantasy elves of which Eldars are just another varient of is that there is indeed some of it. Eldars are practically just like human to the point where one could mistake an Eldar for a human, their only "alien trait" is basically their pointy ear. Eldars, like all elves, have an abundance of female secondary characteristics. They are tall, slender, graceful and have absurdely princess-like long hair. They also have a higher preponderance of tertiary characteristics like a love for art, a proximity to nature and wilderness and powerful emotional lives. As such, the average Eldar women are, most often, idealised human women and look like drop-dead gorgeous supermodels (size included) while their average males look like antroginous effetes. Should they be "good" in the fiction, one will emphasis their refinement, wisdom and grace. Should they be "evil", they will made into manipulative, sexualy perverted and arrogant people. In this, they follow the tropes and patterns of female protagonists and villains. Elves and Eldars are predominantly described as "feminine" no matter the actual gender of the character in question which also frequently explains the common portraying the "smurfette" in fantasy as an elf. 40K is a bit an odity due to the fact that the flagship character of the Eldar, Eldrad, is a man and not a woman. Then again, they are supposed to be evil and thus an effete makes a good treacherous villain. Yvraine and Lelith, being both women, are more like some sort of dominatrix, thus sexually perverted and good villainess. Orcs in fantasy and Orkz in 40K follow the opposite pattern being predominantly masculine no matter the gender of the actual character.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 16:25:40


 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

I guess you could say fantasy races are human characteristics driven into absolutes.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Shadenuat wrote:
I guess you could say fantasy races are human characteristics driven into absolutes.


Precicely. Aliens are modified humans that emphasis a portion of our own psyche.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 Galef wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Google scholar isn't coming up with much here. Evolutionary biology seems to mostly just point to long hair as an "Adornment trait" in most cultures corresponding to health (if you have your hair you look more youthful/healthy) wealth (long, well-kept hair means you're not out in the fields getting dirty) or sometimes wisdom (since growing long hair/long beards takes a long time).
That's certainly true, but my original point is that there is a REASON that so many cultures, which evolved distinct from each other, all seem to promote long hair for women. The difference between pheromone production in men vs women and where it is produced most on their bodies respectively is very minute. But there is enough difference for it to have had an affect on our culture.

How this relates to Banshees is that I do not think GW has ever gone into detail about the dimorphism of Eldar, aside from modeling mammary glands. Males often have long hair and females are just as tall as males. So but projecting OUR perception of male/female as HUMANS, we miss the point the Aeldari are indeed Alien.

-


Your original point - that there needs to be a reason - is just wrong, and born from a perspective-based generalization whereby you take what you perceive to be the normal state of the society you currently live in and prescribe it a biological imperative, regardless of one evidently exists or not. It leaves out the fact that in plenty of societies men wore long hair, or nobody could grow long hair because hair was not straight, or we have no idea what the culture was surrounding hair because most of human existence occurred before the dawn of recorded history. It just posits a narrative based on our own current notions of normal and projects it on the world at large, backing it up with some flimsy science that wouldn't see the light of day unless it was telling the public something they liked to hear.

That's the same thing people seem to be doing ITT with respect to eldar, asserting that so few of their models have molded breastplates because a smaller percentage of their fighters are female as they are a dying race and would keep their womenfolk safe for breeding.

Historically, that's not how societies under existential threat have acted. In universe lore, that's not how the Eldar act - All Eldar Must Answer the Call is a big theme. And let's not forget this is a race whose crazy, debauched cousins have the technology necessary to clone a living, functional drukhari with all the memories of its former self intact from the barest bit of genetic material with zero need for any primitive pregnancy or birthing.

We don't know how the CWE roll, but I would hazard a guess it's not going to involve entrusting the safety of their society's most valuable treasures to a crude biological process that impairs the function of one able-bodied Eldar for several months.
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/16/the-klaivex-unleashedgw-homepage-post-1/

Show off, no Jain Zar.

Although it's of course great that DE also transfer from failcast to plastic, so cheers to them. Interestingly they don't get an ynnari version, and GW also chosen one of the unplayed units for them - buffing Incubi.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 17:09:29


 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 Shadenuat wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/16/the-klaivex-unleashedgw-homepage-post-1/

Show off, no Jain Zar.

Although it's of course great that DE also transfer from failcast to plastic, so cheers to them.


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PLASTIC INCUBI

Now pretty please don't suck. a minimum squad size less than 5 would be aces, but I'm not betting on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like the demiklaives have something similar to their old rules, which is kind of disappointing compared to the excellent damage of the Executioner banshee exarch. Even without any special abilities at all, the executioner exarch does more damage to MEQ than the single-blade Klaivex, and the dual-blade demiklaive only does a tiny bit more damage than an executioner vs GEQ despite that being ostensibly the demiklaive's preferred role.

Would have really liked to see D3 damage on the single blade profile, or S5/S4 instead of S4/S3.

Oh well, hopefully the Klaivex also gets his choice of "Exarch abilities" as the banshee exarch does.

Three cheers for a kit that looks totally compatible with the rest of the very bits-swappable deldar range though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/16 17:16:11


 
   
Made in ru
Swift Swooping Hawk




Russia, Moscow

Don't they do like extra damage on wound of a 6?

Also don't tell me maybe Jain will fight Drazhar?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 17:20:17


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




That's a good looking model, hopefully there's plenty more coming for the different flavours of eldar.
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre






the_scotsman wrote:
 Galef wrote:
But long hair being feminine is 100% a human thing. Most pheromones produced by women come out of their head, thus longer hair "traps" more pheromones and thus makes said female appear more attractive to the senses.
As mammals, were get a lot of cues from scent.

Fun fact side note: most male pheromones come form our arm pits. Curiously, since males are generally taller than females that puts both gender's pheromones about "nose" height.

-


This kind of sounds like pop science horse garbage at first glance, I'll be honest. A totes rigorous scientific study you guys that claims to explain a current social moray as objectively good and ideal is exactly the kind of thing that tends to get juuuuuust far enough into the peer review process for all the sensational news coverage to pick up on it.

Google scholar isn't coming up with much here. Evolutionary biology seems to mostly just point to long hair as an "Adornment trait" in most cultures corresponding to health (if you have your hair you look more youthful/healthy) wealth (long, well-kept hair means you're not out in the fields getting dirty) or sometimes wisdom (since growing long hair/long beards takes a long time).


Long hair = health, just like facial symmetry. It also keeps your head/neck/back protected from the sun and cold, so it has practical value as well.

Men mostly having short hair is a sensible military trait - you don't want hair in your eyes when fighting and you don't want another human grabbing your hair and controlling your head. Thousands of years of human warfare has proven the value of short hair in males, while women are generally exempt from military service, so they're free to grow long hair. Long hair is also a lot of extra work with today's modern hygiene standards, so most men (and a lot of women!) can't be bothered with it.

The whole pheromone thing highly questionable, as our noses are garbage (compared to most species). Long hair serves as an excellent visual cue and any scent it might carry is secondary at best.

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 John Prins wrote:
Long hair serves as an excellent visual cue and any scent it might carry is secondary at best.
I never suggested otherwise (or at least that was not my intent)

-

   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Shadenuat wrote:
I'd even put hair aboves titties.

Hair culturally and historically was always a symbol of female power, from fairy tales to goddesses to toys and shampoo commercials.

This is stupid. Long hair beind associated with feminine is a cultural thing and far from universal. There have been many eras and cultures where men had long hair as well. I guess someone will next demand that female aliens must have pink armour, as pink is universally associated with the feminine. (Instead of the association being invented by marketing people in the 40s.)

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





 Crimson wrote:
 Shadenuat wrote:
I'd even put hair aboves titties.

Hair culturally and historically was always a symbol of female power, from fairy tales to goddesses to toys and shampoo commercials.

This is stupid. Long hair beind associated with feminine is a cultural thing and far from universal. There have been many eras and cultures where men had long hair as well. I guess someone will next demand that female aliens must have pink armour, as pink is universally associated with the feminine. (Instead of the association being invented by marketing people in the 40s.)


I think the charitable interpretation of the comment was that on a miniature, long hair is a better indicator of femininity than giant bazonkalongadonkos.

Which I kind of agree with. I love my 2nd ed banshees but wish they weren't in comic book superhero spine-snapper poses with breastplates bigger than their facemasks.
   
 
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