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Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 stahly wrote:
I don't know if they used the same formula as Contrast. The way I understood it from the guy who develops all the paints at GW was that they used the knowledge they gained from developing Contrast to improve the Shade paints formula.

You have been using the new ones, though, right? How they behave when compared with the old washes and with contrast paints?
   
Made in ir
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger





 Albertorius wrote:
 stahly wrote:
I don't know if they used the same formula as Contrast. The way I understood it from the guy who develops all the paints at GW was that they used the knowledge they gained from developing Contrast to improve the Shade paints formula.

You have been using the new ones, though, right? How they behave when compared with the old washes and with contrast paints?


Yeah, I've got the new Shade & Contrast paints to review. I wrote a review and made a video that should answer all your questions, check it out here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/06/review-new-formula-citadel-shade-paints-better-or-just-smaller-pots/

 
   
Made in us
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

While I do agree the naming convention is a little strange for some of the new contrasts paints, a few of those colors that provide little contrast and instead just provide clean, solid coverage in one pass is a huge plus. I have been painting for a couple decades now, and while I am not a fantastic painter by any means, a quick way to get a decent looking yellow base is awesome to me. Especially as someone who doesn’t have a lot of time to paint.

To new painters, whom from I constantly hear painting yellow is awful (and I mostly agree) those yellows will be even more helpful.

Strange naming, useful product, so I give it a pass.

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





The previous contrast paints didn't even behave the same way anyway.
   
Made in se
Infiltrating Prowler






 Arbitrator wrote:

The Nighthaunt Gloom changing is a perfect example of why I can't justify using Citadel paints for big projects anymore. The whole range changed once, there's every chance it can/will happen again.


It's a risk with any paint line. Painter I followed (LionOfFlanders) was trying to update one of his armies from a few years previously and found the Vallejo flesh color had changed significantly even though the name hadn't.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

chaos0xomega wrote:
an ink has a specific chemical composition and technical definition which contrast paints do not meet (key is in the name, its illegal in many areas to market a paint as an ink or an ink as a paint), though the end result is that they both behave similarly as far as our plastic dudes are concerned.
never came across that thing, is this an US specific law/guideline?
Because everything I have seen was that the difference between an Ink and a Paint is largely up to the company’s definition of their brands (which comes down to inks can be used with pen out of the box, were paints need a brush, if you can use the colour to write with a pen on paper, it is an ink and not a paint)

the main difference is that most Inks are a solution (were the pigment is dissolved) were the Paint is a "slurry", but there are exceptions to both

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

'Sunday Preview – Brace Yourself for the Biggest Paint Launch in Years' on Warhammer Community:

Warhammer Community wrote:All the new paints have a two-week pre-order period. But that’s not all that’s up for grabs by a long shot.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/26 17:12:44


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in es
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ghaz wrote:
Pre-orders next week


2 weeks.. seriusly? : /


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/26/sunday-preview-brace-yourself-for-the-biggest-paint-launch-in-years/
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 stahly wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 stahly wrote:
I don't know if they used the same formula as Contrast. The way I understood it from the guy who develops all the paints at GW was that they used the knowledge they gained from developing Contrast to improve the Shade paints formula.

You have been using the new ones, though, right? How they behave when compared with the old washes and with contrast paints?


Yeah, I've got the new Shade & Contrast paints to review. I wrote a review and made a video that should answer all your questions, check it out here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/06/review-new-formula-citadel-shade-paints-better-or-just-smaller-pots/


I did read it, but I'm afraid it doesn't answer my question, or at least I don't see the answer. You say that there is "significantly less pooling in the flat areas, and dark and strong shadows", which is the end result, but nothing about how it behaves when actually putting it on the mini and when trying to move it around. I've consistently seen that washes were easy to move around and to remove when pooling, whereas with contrast paints moving the paint around is harder without leaving brush marks, and as soon as it is even a tiny bit bit dry any attempt to remove pooled paint leaves an ugly rim of dried paint.

So I am still with no answer to the question of wether the new washes behave more like the old ones or like contrast paints, and IMHO it's a significant difference and it will affect how you need to go about actually painting with them.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight



Cadia

 Ghaz wrote:
It's their product, not yours, so yes if they want to call it Contrast then that is their right. If you don't like it then make your own and name it whatever you want.


Lolwut. "GW can do whatever they want" is not a valid response to criticism of GW's decision. But I'll take that as your concession that you have no valid defense against the fact that GW is making a mistake here by using misleading branding for their new products.

(Not that I personally have a stake in this, given the well established history that I can't trust GW paints to be accurate and consistent over time I will not buy anything from GW.)

THE PLANET BROKE BEFORE THE GUARD! 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Seems to me that you think you know better than anyone else. Obviously, that's not the case, so on Ignore you go.

Back on topic, another review on the new paints:


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/26 17:44:41


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight



Cadia

 Ghaz wrote:
Seems to me that you think you know better than anyone else. Obviously, that's not the case.


Cool, so now you've moved on to the petty insults stage of not having any defense for GW's actions but not being willing to admit that GW could make a mistake.

THE PLANET BROKE BEFORE THE GUARD! 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Agent Provocateur




Exeter, UK

zamerion wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Pre-orders next week


2 weeks.. seriusly? : /


First time the contrast paints were release, they sold out pretty quickly and were hard to hold of for quite a while. This way they can gauge a little demand hopefully?
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 arkhanist wrote:
Relying on the forgeworld air paints is clearly a bad idea though. They went end-of-life there, were eventually brought back into the main citadel air line when Contrast came out, and many have just gone last-chance-to-buy again.


yeah my plan was to use citidel averland sunset air. I am... reconsidering

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Shakalooloo wrote:
zamerion wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Pre-orders next week


2 weeks.. seriusly? : /


First time the contrast paints were release, they sold out pretty quickly and were hard to hold of for quite a while. This way they can gauge a little demand hopefully?


Two weeks doesn't give them time to make any more product. At best it gives them chance to decide how much to shaft the independent shops on their orders and how much to keep for themselves.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Sabotage! wrote:
While I do agree the naming convention is a little strange for some of the new contrasts paints, a few of those colors that provide little contrast and instead just provide clean, solid coverage in one pass is a huge plus. I have been painting for a couple decades now, and while I am not a fantastic painter by any means, a quick way to get a decent looking yellow base is awesome to me. Especially as someone who doesn’t have a lot of time to paint.

To new painters, whom from I constantly hear painting yellow is awful (and I mostly agree) those yellows will be even more helpful.

Strange naming, useful product, so I give it a pass.



as I said, just think of the contrast label as a guide to what medium to use to dilute it. *shrugs*

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran





My guess for two week pre-order is that GW expects to fulfill a large number of orders of varying size and contents. Releasing 40+ paints is a bit more complicated process than releasing a Codex and handful of miniatures. Very few of the orders are identical and it will take a while to pack them all.

That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

Goddamnit, now everything I shaded with Nuln Oil is going to look slightly different from everything I shaded with Nuln Oil in the future

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

2 Weeks is very normal when GW has a big release that they expect will generate abnormally high order volume. It gives them additional production and packing time and also helps to likely allow them to ship out product in two staged batches so that delivery can be more unified and smooth flowing.

It can also give them a "week off" from a big release which might well be important in terms of staff work hours and workload.

Print Hunter
Check out the latest 3D print model releases!  
   
Made in gb
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine





For those who are worrying about losing the old 'filtering' style shade, the army painter acrylic quickshade washes work similarly to current GW washes. Less colours in the range, but a lot cheaper. Similar sorts of effects, but not drop in replacements for current GW shades; but then, neither are the new ones!

The old 'in-a-tin' oil based quickshades have been renamed 'dips' so a bit easier to find the right ones now.

   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran





Spoiler:
 Ghaz wrote:
Juan Hidalgo compares the new Shades to the old...




Attached is the end result of his test. I must say I like the new formula better than the old one. If you prefer the old, it might be a good idea to grab some before they disappear from the stores.
[Thumb - FB_IMG_1656279724058.jpg]
Old vd. New Shade comparison


That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

jullevi wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ghaz wrote:
Juan Hidalgo compares the new Shades to the old...




Attached is the end result of his test. I must say I like the new formula better than the old one. If you prefer the old, it might be a good idea to grab some before they disappear from the stores.


God damn, does the new Nuln Oil do anything at all?

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




That is an incredibly useful comparison pic and the new shades look amazing.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Richmond, VA

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
jullevi wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ghaz wrote:
Juan Hidalgo compares the new Shades to the old...




Attached is the end result of his test. I must say I like the new formula better than the old one. If you prefer the old, it might be a good idea to grab some before they disappear from the stores.


God damn, does the new Nuln Oil do anything at all?


Looks like it will black line pretty decently. I suspect 1:1 Basilicanum Grey and Contrast medium would be closer to the current Nuln Oil, though.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

jullevi wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ghaz wrote:
Juan Hidalgo compares the new Shades to the old...




Attached is the end result of his test. I must say I like the new formula better than the old one. If you prefer the old, it might be a good idea to grab some before they disappear from the stores.

And if you want to see his results with the new Contrast paints you can find them HERE


[Thumb - New Contrast 01.JPG]

[Thumb - New Contrast 02.JPG]

[Thumb - New Contrast 03.JPG]

[Thumb - New Shades.JPG]

[Thumb - Kroxigor Scales.jpg]

[Thumb - Agrax - Nuln.jpg]


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Are there any videos showing how these washes or new contrasts work over not white paint? As I doubt I'm in the minority when I say I pretty much never paint over a pure white undercoat, so its not hugely helpful to see what they all look like over that. I'm not washing a white space marine, ever, I suspect. How is it over a coloured basecoat for example, as that's pretty much how I think most people use washes?

Also, how are the super saturated paints over a non-white undercoat? Black, grey, xenothol etc?
   
Made in ca
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

BrianDavion wrote:
 Sabotage! wrote:
While I do agree the naming convention is a little strange for some of the new contrasts paints, a few of those colors that provide little contrast and instead just provide clean, solid coverage in one pass is a huge plus. I have been painting for a couple decades now, and while I am not a fantastic painter by any means, a quick way to get a decent looking yellow base is awesome to me. Especially as someone who doesn’t have a lot of time to paint.

To new painters, whom from I constantly hear painting yellow is awful (and I mostly agree) those yellows will be even more helpful.

Strange naming, useful product, so I give it a pass.



as I said, just think of the contrast label as a guide to what medium to use to dilute it. *shrugs*


I think that's fair, especially considering how different many of the paints in the existing range are (Black Templar compared to Aethericmatic Blue for example).

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The old shades have had a few significant changes. Nuln Oil is a lot lighter. Agrax is dirtier. Seraphim Sepia is more washed out.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





BigOscar wrote:
Are there any videos showing how these washes or new contrasts work over not white paint? As I doubt I'm in the minority when I say I pretty much never paint over a pure white undercoat, so its not hugely helpful to see what they all look like over that. I'm not washing a white space marine, ever, I suspect. How is it over a coloured basecoat for example, as that's pretty much how I think most people use washes?

Also, how are the super saturated paints over a non-white undercoat? Black, grey, xenothol etc?


Yeah, also how it works over hand painted models is probably more important to me than how it behaves over a sprayed surface.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sabotage! wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Sabotage! wrote:
While I do agree the naming convention is a little strange for some of the new contrasts paints, a few of those colors that provide little contrast and instead just provide clean, solid coverage in one pass is a huge plus. I have been painting for a couple decades now, and while I am not a fantastic painter by any means, a quick way to get a decent looking yellow base is awesome to me. Especially as someone who doesn’t have a lot of time to paint.

To new painters, whom from I constantly hear painting yellow is awful (and I mostly agree) those yellows will be even more helpful.

Strange naming, useful product, so I give it a pass.



as I said, just think of the contrast label as a guide to what medium to use to dilute it. *shrugs*


I think that's fair, especially considering how different many of the paints in the existing range are (Black Templar compared to Aethericmatic Blue for example).


It was always a gripe people had that the different contrasts behaved differently and that there should be a more consistent effect across the range. Sooo, GW went the other way and introduced a line of contrasts that behave absolutely nothing like a contrast?

I still find it a bit odd, as "Contrast" was surely named "Contrast" for it's ability to quickly create a shadow/highlight contrast, and so to name paints that don't do that as "Contrast" seems a bit backward. It also takes people one step further away from just being able to look at the pot on the shelf in a store (or a swatch on a webstore) and decide which colour to buy. Stores are really going to need to paint up samples for the store shelves, or customers will need to stand in front of the rack on their phones googling product reviews to know how certain paints will come out.

But, I don't really care that much, just seems like a silly choice, I think they probably should have just given them a different name even if they do use the same medium.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/27 03:52:27


 
   
Made in ca
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

I will say one really nice thing my LGS does is has a display of textured bases all painted with contrast and normal bases with the GW textured basing paints on them. It's really nice to see how the product looks on a real life sample before buying it.


 
   
 
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