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Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

Despite it often being used as such, KS is not an online store you order from. You are basically investing in a pitched project that is not yet done to help see it come to fruition, with rewards offered based on your contribution (think along the lines of a PBS or NPR pledge drive). Projects have estimated delivery dates, but the KS that delivers on time is the minority as snags in development, scope creep, creator personal issues, manufacturer or distributor actions beyond the creator's control, and so on all add up and push fufillment back.

The first KS delivered about two years late, though as noted, it was one of the first ones that blew up that big and the creator has explicitly talked about learning from that experience. To that end, delivery of this KS is being split into multiple waves:

Summer 2017: Delivery of core game/upgrade packs. He's said they are already in process with the manufacturers and handling the logistics on this, with all of the model tooling existing from the previous KS and only the rulebook and some cards needing updating plus production of one model (which looks to also be tooled already), so this, to me, looks very reliable. I suspect any reprint of existing expansions offered through this KS will most likely ship with this, but he is working with manufacturers before confirming this.

Spring 2018: Gambler's Box (KD:M Advanced rules and options) and promo and pin-up models (one-off mode with a couple of less than serious gameplay cards). As the GB is likely their current main focus of development and the other things are pretty much just scultping and manufacturing, this is prob in the ballpark, though later 2018 would be more likely.

Spring 2019: New expansions funded by this KS (not reprints of existing). We know at least a few have been in development, but this date depends a lot on just how many have been unlocked. Expect to see this slip.

Late 2020: This is their CYA date for anything that wasn't part of the original plans and stretch goals for this KS but that ultimately gets greenlit due to the unexpected success of this one. Basically ideas they had on file for development and KSing after this one, but if they end up with a few million more than anticipated (which they already have) they are going to move ahead with with the funding from this one. What and when that's all entails is totally up in the air.

 Micky wrote:

Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

in 4-5 years or so, knowing Poots.

To be fair, he's got most of the infrastructure in place now so delivery should be faster on the 1.5 update and 1.5 Core + existing expansions. The new stuff will take a good amount of time, sadly. Hopefully the 2020 timeframe is just Poots being extremely cautious.

I don't think I've ever been part of a kickstarter that's delivered new product in under a year.

Yeah, based on past KS projects (not just KD), with China you're looking at a 12-18 month pipeline on HIPS. Throw in that Adam is a perfectionist and the tweaks for the print content and possibly plastics and you want to err on the long side of that equation. Throw in shipping to warehouses and then to your door and new content could take as much as the 2-3 years for *new* content. Existing content is more along the lines of shoot, print, ship, which is probably 6-8 months to being shipped to backers from when they can get a slot.

One thing that is nicer about KS though is that Adam will likely be a cash customer for a goodly chunk of the work as the money is being raised up front. Depending on what new stuff is planned, he can probably occupy big timeslots at the factory on his own which is a plus for a manufacturer. If he's staying with the same manufacturer (Wargames Factory), then they're already somewhat experienced and have a decent idea of what they can do and how. This, theoretically, should even some of Adam's "never stop tinkering" out, but it's definitely a game of patience.

It will definitely be an interesting six weeks.

A friend wants me to pledge for this, so if you're in one of the lower black friday pledge levels and thinking of switching to a higher / lower one could you PM me the time you plan to do so, to give me a chance at it? Thanks

 RiTides wrote:
A friend wants me to pledge for this, so if you're in one of the lower black friday pledge levels and thinking of switching to a higher / lower one could you PM me the time you plan to do so, to give me a chance at it? Thanks

I suggest you get in on the cheapest non-BF pledge you can afford for what you want. Once there, you get to play the Kickstarter mini-game where you constantly keep an eye out for the pledge of your choice opening up and then you "Manage Your Pledge" and snatch it. This is the most fun and exciting in the last day or two of the campaign where people are changing spots frequently based on what's available as addons.

I'm in the $185 pledge now and I'm not letting that go unless the math says the $777 pledge is a better value for what I'll end up buying anyway. Sadly, I can't make that decision until everything is revealed and I can add up my costs.

Thanks all for the explanation when I the Kick Starter would arrive. Knowing me, I would forget about it, so guess it's not for me sadly.

Would like it now, not 3 or 4 years from now. Greatly appreciate the explanations.

Well, you'll be able to buy it for $400 next year.

Davor wrote:
Thanks all for the explanation when I the Kick Starter would arrive. Knowing me, I would forget about it, so guess it's not for me sadly.

Would like it now, not 3 or 4 years from now. Greatly appreciate the explanations.

Well, you'll get the core game, updated and expanded from what is currently available next summer. That is something that Poots is currently working on and has been for a while, so that should be good. Any of the current expansions you end up buying will be with that, which is a lot of content. And the people who like to wax poetic about the horrible delays of KDM often like to exaggerate. It funded on Jan 7 2013, with estimated delivery from Nov of that year on, it grew massively in scope and yet we had basically all of the content in around 3 years. That was tooling up and creating the project. This project, Adam learned and put an out there absolute end date of when you will have all of your stuff. The meaningful stuff that needs development - new expansion, which given the scope of stuff we've seen up to now will probably radically expand the gaming experience - will probably be delivered late 2019 by my estimation, with the possibility of a wave 2.5 or something depending on how ridiculous the wave 3 stuff gets.

Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

Read the entire Campaign page. The first items will deliver mid-next year, and other pieces will trickle out in subsequent waves for 2018, 2019...

That said, we all know Adam is a perfectionist and a bit Mercurial, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some things delay if that's what he feels is needed.

I do think that he has a better idea of what he should be offering, and what things should cost, so we won't get ridiculous discounts, aside from the sheer volume that ties to $5M revenue.
____

Speaking of revenue, Forbes is almost certainly off with the notion of $50M revenue. That said, I think it's pretty much certain to top Dark Souls, and very possible that this tops Exploding Kittens' $8.7M

Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

The FAQ should have the Wave shipping dates. Core is first wave, expected next year, frex. However, expect delays more than product!

Update is up, I wonder maybe we will see the other Sci fi's in this campaign?

OVER $5 MILLION PLEDGED! Gambler's Chest Roll #2! Can you guess the next pinup?


First Narrative Sculpture revealed!

And so the dice speak, and I reveal. White Fang, the Twilight Swordswoman is ready to join your hunting party and pounce into action! Use her to represent your favorite White Lion armored, Twilight Sword wielding survivor. A great way to get around the weapon's tricky cumbersome rule.

Cyber Monday Bonus! An additional bonus Added to the Gambler's Chest! ( no roll needed!)

Sci-fi Aya the Survivor joins the Gambler's Chest as a surprise bonus! Seemed appropriate with our silly shopping day and all. Oh and also the whole over 5 Million thing, which I am still in shock about. Has it really only been 3 days? Thankfully the team will be joining me monday morning ( in a mere 7 hours).

Anyway, All of you are awesome. I can't wait to get all the cool stuff we have lined up and ready to slowly... one tiny piece at a time... slowly, reveal it to everyone. Bwa hahahaha!

All right time for some sleep! Until tomorrow!!!!!!

I wonder if we'll even see stretch goals. Right now, I don't think we will in any traditional sense.

I don't think we will, I am not sure he has anything planned for the amount we hit, he already improvises on that, for example the female first hero model.

By improvises I mean he adds stuff he didn't plan for because he has the luxury with the amount of money that has been gathered.

Alendrel wrote:
Well, you'll be able to buy it for $400 next year.

And you can buy it for $480 right now -- maybe even ten or fifteen bucks less with an eBay flash sale (which they just had today)

I somehow got the impression Poots blew through all his SG's and is now slowly revealing them -- y'know, sorta how SG's really work.

That Gambler's Chest is starting to look nice...!

Nothing in the gamblers chest is appealing to me so far, I'm hoping that it stays that way until the end so that I don't have to pledge for it

Do we know how many more rolls there will be on the GC chart before the end?

Scott Hockley posted a link to his stone effect painting guide as seen in the KS pictures

http://blackhandpainting.blogspot.ie/2016/11/kingdom-death-stone-effect-tutorial.html?m=1

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

Read the entire Campaign page. The first items will deliver mid-next year, and other pieces will trickle out in subsequent waves for 2018, 2019...

ced1106 wrote:

Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

The FAQ should have the Wave shipping dates. Core is first wave, expected next year, frex. However, expect delays more than product!

Reason I ask here is no matter what they say, from what I see especially from the Robotech Kickstarter, they don't always do what they say, so that is why I asked here what people actually experience.

And that 'experience' will vary WIDELY, so...no guarantees there, at all!

Of course, you would think that previous experience would mean a smoother - and perhaps more accurate - journey this time around.

But again, no guarantees!

Other than, maybe, that...it will be late!

ced1106 wrote:

Alendrel wrote:
Well, you'll be able to buy it for $400 next year.

I somehow got the impression Poots blew through all his SG's and is now slowly revealing them -- y'know, sorta how SG's really work.

Cause that's exactly what he said is happening?

Davor wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

Read the entire Campaign page. The first items will deliver mid-next year, and other pieces will trickle out in subsequent waves for 2018, 2019...

ced1106 wrote:

Davor wrote:
Since I don't know anything about Kickstarter, if I placed an order now, or pledge I think they are called, when would I expect product at my door?

The FAQ should have the Wave shipping dates. Core is first wave, expected next year, frex. However, expect delays more than product!

Reason I ask here is no matter what they say, from what I see especially from the Robotech Kickstarter, they don't always do what they say, so that is why I asked here what people actually experience.

What you have with KS is a more eyes-on view to what happens with a product from concept to completion. Previously, you wouldn't know about all the issues because companies are generally working behind-the-scenes on new products and by the time you catch wind of most of them they're already actually fairly far along in the process. On the other extreme from KS where you get to see all the bumps and knocks is the GW model where information comes out only the week before even if it's something they've been creating for a year+. Fantasy Flight Games is a good illustration of the middle-ground of process as when they announce things are coming in 6-8 months, they're generally already to the prototype phase. However, it's fairly typical for their timelines to slip by a quarter as there's hiccups or issues along the way.

The trick with a KS is you have to do your due diligence on the creator as by giving the money upfront for a concept (usually; a goodly chunk of this one is actually a known quantity now) you are now assuming a great deal more of the risk than in a retail transaction. Of the 17 projects I've backed (which is a tiny number compared to some), none of them have yet failed to deliver a product and outside of a few specific models here and there I feel I've gotten decent return on all of them. I won't pretend there's not a fair measure of luck in avoiding some of the campaigns I had an interest in, including the aforementioned Robotech one, but it's also just a basic "does this seem like the sort of person you'd hand money to?" question. If you find you have doubts about the creator or there's not sufficient enough trust to give them money up front, then retail is normally your better bet.

This one being something of a hybrid between a "true" KS around a concept and also being a way to get something that's pretty well-established muddies the waters a bit, but there's plenty of precedent in stuff being re-offered.

Gee whiz .. 5 million and 40 days still to go. What's the highest board game KS so far? this one?

I always thought Xmas shopping season would be a bad time to run a KS, but I guess not!

Dark Soups sits at about $5.4 million, and Exploding Kittens is the top gaming KS at $8.8 million.

As for Xmas: look at it this way, people can always say "This year, just donate to my KD fund!"

I almost bought the Nightmare Ram in resin when that came out too. It's like he's adding all my favourite models to the game. Fingers crossed for a Black Knight expansion!

I'm probably gonna get the gamblers chest as an add on too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alendrel wrote:
Dark Soups sits at about $5.4 million, and Exploding Kittens is the top gaming KS at $8.8 million.

As for Xmas: look at it this way, people can always say "This yeah, just donate to my KD fund!"

That's exactly what I'm doing! Asking for money off everyone and seeing what I can add on after. My dads already said he'll give me the money for the core game.

It doesn't end until january so people have time to get another paycheck before then.

I wouldn't mind seeing all the various Knights get an expansion. Especially the black one and his attendants.

Storm Knight and his sword castle would make for an interesting expansion, as it was supposed to be a maze like tower climb up to the top to challenge him, right?

Speaking of attendants, I wonder if we'll see the Flower Witch and her disciples end up as part of an expansion, especially considering we've seen them done in plastic now.

@Highlord I'd wager that Storm Knight will be saved for Poot's dungeon-crawl secondary game. He's hyped a random dungeon-crawl forever, and that Tower/Maze is a very fitting concept.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I don't think we will, I am not sure he has anything planned for the amount we hit, he already improvises on that, for example the female first hero model.

By improvises I mean he adds stuff he didn't plan for because he has the luxury with the amount of money that has been gathered.

Indeed. I think he'll be more disciplined than last time. Or at least, I hope so...

.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
@Highlord I'd wager that Storm Knight will be saved for Poot's dungeon-crawl secondary game. He's hyped a random dungeon-crawl forever, and that Tower/Maze is a very fitting concept.

The Storm Knight already exists in plastic, so I expect to see it sooner rather than later.

Also, my personal speculation is that KD: Labyrinth (the hero focused game) will be using the Holy Lands and the models based there as its focus.

I'm not interested in getting SF minis in the Gambler's Chest. For me that's a no-value freebie that should have been a non-SF model.