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Hi everyone!

I've never played Warhammer before, though I'm interested in beginning with the hobby. Therefore, I registered at Warseer some days ago and asked for help creating an army list and so on. So I created a thread there and got some really great response, but now Warseer is down and I thought, what the heck, more opinions can't hurt.

So, here's a 2250 pt WoC list. Comments are more than welcome.


General: Demon Prince, Mark of Tzeentch, 4th level wizard

I know it's not the best option for a hero, but I like it for fluff reasons. A huge devil commanding hordes of vikings... priceless.


Hero: Wulfrik the Wanderer

Will use Seafang to deploy behind the enemy lines with a horde of Khornate lumberjacks and hopefully assassinate an enemy character.


Exalted Hero: Battle Standard, Shield, Halberd, Mark of Tzeentch

Will probably march with the Chaos Warriors.


5 Chaos Knights: Full Command, Mark of Nurgle, Banner of Rage

Difficult to kill, good at killing. Ought to do well as a hammer unit.


18 Chaos Warriors: Full Command, Shields, Halberds, Mark of Tzeentch, Blasted Standard

Rely on Ward saves and shields to reach the enemy without too heavy losses, and halberds should deal with most armour saves.


5 Chaos Marauder Horsemen: Full Command, Mark of Slaanesh

I hear they're good at destroying War Machines. I suppose a unit of fearless fast cavalry is always useful in an otherwise slow army.


50 Chaos Marauders: Full Command, Great Weapons, Mark of Khorne

Deploy with Wulfrik somewhere terribly inconvenient for the enemy, and charge whatever is nearby. Since they lack armour and decent Toughness values, they'll all die, but hopefully not before they've caused heavy casualties and disarray.


50 Chaos Marauders: Full Command, Shields, Light Armour, Mark of Tzeentch

Just because I love the idea of a huge block with Tzeentch marauders, really. Flank-protecting anvil unit, I suppose.

IMO you probably don't need the second block of marauders w MoT, you might be better served giving your BSB a ward save and beefing up the warriors you want to use as an anvil

5 chaos knights will hit hard but are hardly a hammer in this edition, 24 warriors with halberds and either rage banner or mark of Khorne are a hammer!

like the seafang trick with wulfrick planning to try it myself

cheers
Papasmurf

PapaSmurf wrote:IMO you probably don't need the second block of marauders w MoT, you might be better served giving your BSB a ward save and beefing up the warriors you want to use as an anvil

Agreed, your BSB wants a ward (talisman of endurance is the go to) and if you really want to kill things you're probably best cutting marauders until you can afford another halberd warrior unit. Quite literally, they are the best core unit in 8th (though I prefer MoT to MoK because frenzy overrun can be exploited quite easily).

Because I'm working on the list anyway, here's what that might look like, fitted into your list:

L: Demon Prince - MoT, level 4, fury = 495

H: Wulfrik = 185
H: Exalted Hero - MoT, BSB, talisman of endurance, ironcurse icon, halberd = 184

C: 18 Warriors - MoT, blasted standard, full command, halberds, shields = 396
C: 18 Warriors - MoT, banner of eternal flame, full command, halberds, shields = 366
C: 40 Marauders - MoK, full command, great weapons = 250
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

S: 6 Knights - banner of rage, standard, musician = 305
--------
2241

You've spent so many points on the DP at this point that popping a little 1+ ward vs magic is nothing (and there are armies out there depending on magic to kill big monsters, so this puts a stop to that nicely). Third Eye is another quality gift, but with 4 levels of Tizz you're probably getting lots to work with anyway.

The BSB got his 4+ ward and halberd, and the ironcurse in case he walks with the flaming warriors (gives them a 5+ ward vs artillery).

Now there are two face-meltingly awesome halberd bricks, ready to rock and roll in ways that 50 shield marauders were never ever going to do. Wulfrik's crew got trimmed down slightly, since 50 dudes in the backfield seemed excessive and even way too big to maneuver at times. The horsemen got turned into 10 puppies, ready to do the dirtiest of jobs (draw fanatics, sit on mangler squigs, bait frenzied khorne warriors into revealing their flank so you can punish them), for almost no cost.

And finally, the knights have lost their champ (a very poor use of 20 points, particularly with auto-challenge WoC rules), lost their mark (biggest effect is against WS3 infantry, but not often going to matter), but gained another dude, for I think a gain of 10 points. Extra guy should make up for small arms casualty (IF that ever happens), while also tossing in +3 S5, +2 S4 attaks for killing steadfast bricks ASAP. Yes knights come in packs of 5, but I'm sure you can find a way!

Your original list is fine (besides BSB gear really, and the horsemen have too much command and too few upgrades), but I think you'll find that the turtle marauders are really not very impressive. Sure they stick ... but that's about it, very poor damage output. And in your list, since your DP is the general, they're likely steadfast on LD7, unless the BSB sits in them. Warriors however are the best they are at what they do, which is often: WIN. (36 halberd warriors is actually probably cheese, or at the very edge of it. Since they aren't frenzied, people will probably assume you're offering a concession, but that frenzy overrun is seriously bad news, and I use it whenever possible to mess with khorne nutters.)

- Salvage

Not to derail but Boss Salvage what are your thoughts on HW SH MoT warriors? Are they worth taking at all vs halberds? I have a unit of 20 and have been considering swapping their arms for halberds. Im also making another pool of 20-25 halberd warriors with command.

Thanks for the suggestions, you've given me some things to think about.

I... still like the idea of the Tzeentch marauders though! Even though they seem quite useless, I'd like to field a unit of them if only for fluff reasons - is there anything these guys could conceivably do well in a 2000-2250 point list?

Sorry for being so obstinate.

Rasclomalum wrote:I... still like the idea of the Tzeentch marauders though! Even though they seem quite useless, I'd like to field a unit of them if only for fluff reasons - is there anything these guys could conceivably do well in a 2000-2250 point list?

Don't get me wrong, they're great buys - 5 points each (don't buy light armor unless you've got a bunch of free points floating around) for WS4, I4 and a 5+ ward in combat! - and kind of the ultimate steadfast unit. Thing is, their damage output is really sad (10 S3 attaks in 5-wide 'steadfast mode') by themselves, but I guess the concept is to get some poor schlub to charge into them and then lock them down until your warriors or knights can arrive and clean house? If you had Shadow or even Fire magic, then you'd have an augment or hex you could use to tip their combats, but without that their mission is simple (steadfast forever) and obvious to everybody.

By all means go for it, I was mostly trying to save you the significant time and money it takes to buy, build and paint 50 more marauders, which might not give you the same fuzzy feeling as the rest of the army

(My own marauders, though I don't use them any more, are great weapon tizz dudes, for a functional S5 on top of the super cheap 6+ ward.)

GMMStudios wrote:Not to derail but Boss Salvage what are your thoughts on HW SH MoT warriors? Are they worth taking at all vs halberds? I have a unit of 20 and have been considering swapping their arms for halberds. Im also making another pool of 20-25 halberd warriors with command.

The core of my chaos boys are tizz shield dudes, partially because that's how they were in 7th, and partially because I don't like taking the best stuff I'm building up some great weapon warriors though for my heavy lifting, and they've been pretty brutal thus far. Most people seemed to take a tizz shield brick as their anvil, with kr0n halberd dudes for hammer time, certainly for a reason (i.e. both are the obvious combos for resilience and offense). That may have changed by this point - to me, halberds really are superior in a game about causing as much mayhem as fast as possible.

- Salvage

So you feel that the damage output is worth the sacrificed defense and higher points of halberd +shield and TZ vs HW SH and tzeentch?

I like tzeentch on halberds still because of the blasted banner. I can see why khorne would be good though. Also you can put the frenzy banner on TZ halberds and not lose anything since there is no parry to lose.

I use a big block of MoT warriors with the rage banner and halberds, they owned face my last game (and the one before that and the well you get the idea)

amazing how many 6+ you can roll when you need to

cheers
Papasmurf

I just can't do it man.. seeing warriors giving up that Initiative 5 just kills me! For that matter, it kills me seeing Tzeentch give up a 5+ parry!

I'm also pretty defensive minded though, I bunker my 4 nurgle sorcerers with 12 Armor/Shield Horseman marauders of tizz w/ spears.

Still being new may I ask What would be considered a big block just to get a feel of how many together are effective. Thanks and I kinda like the idea of halberds they would also look pretty sweet to model.