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Had this question come up the other day in a discussion, thought I would post it here and see what Dakka thought.

Can the Vindicare take out a Flickerfield save?? I realize it would be a wasted shot on anything but a Ravager, but could it?? The vehicle upgrades are listed as wargear, so that falls under the rule for what the Vindicare needs it to be, but you can't allocate wounds to a vehicle, so is it safe?

Yes, it can take it out - it doesnt need to wound to remove the save

As Nos said, it doesn't require a wound, only a hit.

By the way, the Exitus Rifle can reach armour penetration 12 with any round, thanks to rending and the base S3 of sniper weapons.

It says that once a wound has been allocated, so I understand it doesn't need to wound the model to take the invul away, but you can't allocate a wound to a vehicle anymore than you can cause one, that is the reason I ask.

You can allocate the wound, the vehicle just ignores it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, it can take it out - it doesnt need to wound to remove the save

Yes it does. The wound needs to be allocated(by the vindicare's player), you cannot allocate a wound unless you have caused one.

The shield breaker round does not remove invulnerable saves on a hit, it removes them on a wound.

GK codex page 53, Shieldbreaker round wrote:When a wound from this round is allocated to a model, that model loses any invulnerable saves granted by items or wargear immediately, and for the rest of the game. Remaining saves(if any) can then be taken.

You cannot Wound a vehicle(only damage one), so you cannot remove a flicker-field.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, it can take it out - it doesnt need to wound to remove the save

Yes it does. The wound needs to be allocated(by the vindicare's player), you cannot allocate a wound unless you have caused one.

The shield breaker round does not remove invulnerable saves on a hit, it removes them on a wound.

GK codex page 53, Shieldbreaker round wrote:When a wound from this round is allocated to a model, that model loses any invulnerable saves granted by items or wargear immediately, and for the rest of the game. Remaining saves(if any) can then be taken.

You cannot Wound a vehicle(only damage one), so you cannot remove a flicker-field.

after reading this I am convinced!
I am also not sure that vehicle upgrades are "War Gear" they use to be very different.

of course I dont see why a vindy would ever try to remove a 10 point upgrade instead of just trying to down the tank with a turbo penetrator.

You need to wound a vehicle to remove it's ++ save.

Remember, there are two ways of wounding a model; when you beat a model's toughness, you have wounded it, and when the model fails it's saving throw, you have wounded it.

The Round is looking for the first type of wounding.

Now, go ahead and waste the shot on my vehicle instead of my 2++ save, which apparently everyone is getting now, but for some reason DE got the crappy version of...

BuFFo wrote:You need to wound a vehicle to remove it's ++ save.

Remember, there are two ways of wounding a model; when you beat a model's toughness, you have wounded it, and when the model fails it's saving throw, you have wounded it.

The Round is looking for the first type of wounding.

Now, go ahead and waste the shot on my vehicle instead of my 2++ save, which apparently everyone is getting now, but for some reason DE got the crappy version of...

but the rifle has not beaten the vehicles toughness. the vehicle doesnt have a toughness nor can it be wounded.

Well, in regards to this, you can't wound it as it does not have a toughness.

Can the vindicare get rid of a warding stave 2++ save? The save isn't used against shooting attacks, but would that matter at all?

I dont see why not - it is still an invulnerable save granted by wargear

Exergy wrote:after reading this I am convinced!
I am also not sure that vehicle upgrades are "War Gear" they use to be very different.

of course I dont see why a vindy would ever try to remove a 10 point upgrade instead of just trying to down the tank with a turbo penetrator.

It is listed in the page entry and the army list entry for the vehicles as wargear, so RAW it can be affected by the Vindicare if it could cause a wound.

A vehicle can never be wounded by shooting, as the rules never allow you to cause a wound to a vehicle, even if it had a toughness value.

Oaka wrote:Can the vindicare get rid of a warding stave 2++ save? The save isn't used against shooting attacks, but would that matter at all?

it could remove its invunerables the 5++ from terminator armor if any and the 2++ from the staff, or it could just kill the model with a normal round.

Exergy wrote:

Oaka wrote:Can the vindicare get rid of a warding stave 2++ save? The save isn't used against shooting attacks, but would that matter at all?

it could remove its invunerables the 5++ from terminator armor if any and the 2++ from the staff, or it could just kill the model with a normal round.

unless it is a Paladin with a Warding Staff, it kills the Grey night while removing the 2++; so if it were a terminator(or paladin) I would only bother removing the 5++(which would then kill the termy/apply the wound with no armor save).

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Oaka wrote:Can the vindicare get rid of a warding stave 2++ save? The save isn't used against shooting attacks, but would that matter at all?

it could remove its invunerables the 5++ from terminator armor if any and the 2++ from the staff, or it could just kill the model with a normal round.

unless it is a Paladin with a Warding Staff, it kills the Grey night while removing the 2++; so if it were a terminator(or paladin) I would only bother removing the 5++(which would then kill the termy/apply the wound with no armor save).

The vindy has a round that does 2 wounds, which would do for paladins

from what i have read though, IC can take warding staffs. That would probably be worth it, as one sheild breaker would take away all their invunerables at once.