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Seeing as many think Tyranids got no love in their codex, I am re-writing it. Feel free to tell me if you think these changes make it overpowered.

Hive Tyrant: 150 points base, Wings upgrade only 50 points, Armored shell, 30 points, also, allowed to have both armored shell and wings on the same tyrant.

Swarmlord: 260 points

Tervigon: Init 2

Parasite of Mortrex: 120 points

Lictor: Allowed to assault when he appears

Deathleaper: 120 points

Venomthrope: 4+ invulnerable save

Zoanthrope: 50 points

Pyrovore: 2 attacks base, 40 points, always explodes when dies by IK, does S3 AP 2 hits

Tyranid Warriors: All attacks against them are at -1 str.

Broodlord: Psychic power tat allows the stealers to assault as if they had grenades.

Shrikes: 4+ save

Ravener: Stealth

Harpy: 3+ save, 150 points

Carnifex: 140 points base

Old One Eye: 200 points

Biovore: Spore Mines are S4 AP 5 rending

Trygon: -20 points for both Trygon and Trygon Prime

Mawloc: 150 points base

Tyrannofex: Init 2, 4 attacks, 240 points base

Why are you wishlisting on a viable codex?

Fixing what I consider to be mistakes.

Do you have some feedback? Remember, this is a proposed rules forum.

My feedback is to change nothing. It's a perfectly good codex.

Just... wow. Good luck finding opponent's who are happy to get on board with all that!

I think generally re-writes should be about making the army more fun or to increase the viability of universally-acknowledged bad units. You seem just to be increasing the power of half of the codex by a substantial amount, and it includes a bunch of units that everyone already uses because they're properly costed.

For a start, I would just do the stuff you don't see often on the tables. That means consider leaving the trygons, tervigons, hive tyrants, swarmlord, zoanthropes, tyrannofexes alone. Remember that not everyone plays Space Wolves or Grey Knights and for those people these units are still pretty hard to deal with.

I would only make MAYBE two changes.

One is that tyranid primes can join warriors in their spore pods, the other being that shadow in the warp effects passengers of vehicles. Which is really just a FAQ change.

please for the love of god make biovores able to target a target and not a unit, i like spore mines for field denial, and mebe D3 mines per shot.

As others have said, don't change anything on the models that see heavy use, that's usually a good indicator that they don't need to be changed.

Doom of Malantai needs either IC or EW.
Fix the dumb FAQ bits. Spods should work exactly like normal dedicated transports (IE, ICs can join them, and it shouldn't be mandatory to start the game in the pod), and Shadow should work on psykers in transports.
Parasite of Mortrex needs to be able to spawn ripper swarms without it costing the game on KP missions.

Possibly come up with some kind of counter to the excessive anti Nidzilla from the more recent codices (not an easy task, since you also don't want to nullify the way those armies work).

The major problem in Tyranids is the players only taking the viable units.

So, the solution is to mildly buff the units not frequently taken like warriors, so my 2 cents are making Raveners and Warriors T5 to make them more resilient and make Shadow in the warp a army wide special rule, after all there is a planet of the bugs present just not all of them are seen in a normal game (and make them affect Psykers in transports) Also, just a fun extension I'd like to see the Carnifex be dropped in points and have access to the number of biomorphs available from the 3rd edition and points on the biomorphs adjusted to make the Carnifex roughly the same cost as present, and with different options in the brood. It would be a nice change from 3 trygons all the time.

Finally, with the amount of anti-transport firepower lacking somewhat in a nid army, I thought of hive guard having multiple weapon options. (and a corresponding increase in points ~10 or so) to get access to HVC, VC, BS and the like. Feel free to shoot me down.

If point balance is an issue with a cheaper 'fex with more options, it could be made mandatory that it takes a certain number of them, much like the Deffdred of the Orks.

Of course, it could already be that way, and I could just be talking out my @$$.

The biggest single positive change to the Tyranids would be making synapse bestow Eternal Warrior on any creature within range.

The biggest single positive change to the Tyranids would be making synapse bestow Eternal Warrior on any creature within range.

This. And I would make Carnifexes a bit cheaper. That is really all they need.

Melissia wrote:One is that tyranid primes can join warriors in their spore pods, the other being that shadow in the warp effects passengers of vehicles. Which is really just a FAQ change.

Dear god yes...and you can drop Spods empty and deploy the units they were bought for normally.

kadeton wrote:The biggest single positive change to the Tyranids would be making synapse bestow Eternal Warrior on any creature within range.

I really don't think they need to go back to this. However, I WOULD try out having synapse creatures themselves get EW. I think the non-MC synapse critters would generally need a points bump for this, but the MCs are a bit over-costed as is. I'd drop the non-synapse MCs down in points by about 30 points.

Another change I would like to see, is to have the Venom cannon and Heavy venom cannon be a viable tank supression weapon.

Venom cannon

36" S7 Ap4 Assault 4. -1 on the Damage table.


Heavy Venom Cannon

36" S9 AP3 Assault 2. -1 on the damage table.

er just gonna say that tyranids are just fine as they are, haven't lost a game at my LSG in a month, they have bad units and they have redicules units such as TERVIGON WHO DOESN"T NEED MODIFYING BECAUSE IT IS OVER POWERED.

Carnies should be 110pts.

Compare them to a dreadknight. Yeah.


@Dave_Nz;
My understanding is that I2 is really just an attempt to protect them from Jaws Of the World Wolf a little, which currently gimps most of the Nid codex.

But the truth is that tervies don't need an init boost, Jaws just shouldn't exist...

My ideas are:

Cut about 40 points off all MC's except the Tervigon. Trygon only cuts 20pt. Trygon Prime gets full cut. Tyranofex gets a 60pt cut.

Make Lictors FA, and allow their bonus to reserves bgin turn 2.

bucheonman wrote:Fixing what I consider to be mistakes.

Interesting that every fix is an improvement.

I agree that there's some editing needed in the codex, and I agree with the above that this should only be approached from a 'make things more interesting' direction as opposed to getting tempted to hand out stat boosts and price cuts.

Armoured Shell should give a model Slow and Purposeful and Eternal Warrior, and remain not being allowed with Jump Infantry.

Re MC pricing. I agree with pricing down Carnifexes a little, but not too much. They can blob up with Primes and throw on Catalyst to make a VERY robust unit, what with wound allocation, cover and FNP.

Stealers do not need assault grenade emulation, they can be FNP'd and the prey Paroxysm'd or pinned. Tyranids not mass producing frag grenades was a bold move, one I like.

Lictors should have Implant Attacks. In 2ed, they were the flagbearers of injecting deadly toxins.

Units capable of jumping out of a Trygon's hole should be committed to it pre-game and either exempt from rolling to arrive until the hole's there, or guaranteed to arrive a turn after the Trygon. Right now, this unit synergy only works in Apocalypse.

Tyranid Prime should be able to join a Warrior unit in a Spod.

Pyrovore needs more attacks, but not more powerful explosions.

Make Heavy Venom Cannons at least S10 Assault 2. This combined with their lowered cost, helps carnifex's actually fit into the army, by giving them the ability to compete with other units.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:Make Heavy Venom Cannons at least S10 Assault 2. This combined with their lowered cost, helps carnifex's actually fit into the army, by giving them the ability to compete with other units.

What role would this leave the Tyrannofex?

Look, if you *really* want to fix the codex, give our units Assault Grenades. Assault Grenades and some Initiative boosts on some of the MCs to protect against JoTWW (not significant boosts).

MAYBE give warriors a boost in Toughness, but at +15 points to the warriors.

We do not need assault grenades, we have many ways to make the enemy hit on 5's, go to ground, strike at reduced I, or have to hack through FNP. Tyranids are an army that uses unit synergy, not munitions factories.

lindsay40k wrote:

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:Make Heavy Venom Cannons at least S10 Assault 2. This combined with their lowered cost, helps carnifex's actually fit into the army, by giving them the ability to compete with other units.

What role would this leave the Tyrannofex?

The Tyranofex would become a more durable Carnifex. It could easily be dropped from the codex. There is no model, and it serves no role that would be needed if the Carnifex was actually done right.

Wings be cheaper then current but not as cheap as before
Allow warriors to carry different loadouts.
Carnifexes with some better upgrades, some of the previous edition stuff i.e. str, armor, wounds
Allow crushing claws to work with living battering ram
Lictors assault turn they arrive
Beast back on Hormagaunts
Some way to purchase an invul save
Scything talons to give attacks vice rerolls

Honestly, I would just like the previous codex back with some tweaks. Drop all the stuff that doesn't exist in 5th ed and keep the new synapse and instinctive behavior.

I played nids for a while and haven't touched them since the new dex came out, I think we got hosed and yes I have tried the new dex, can't find a list that works for me. Especially considering what everyone else has gotten.

i would want to see an invulnerable save for MC, 30pts for 2 up armour 5 up INV, or 50pts for 2up arm 3 up inv
maybe T7 on MC,
Synaps giving Eternal Warrior,
thats about all i would want

Erm, you want Carnifexes in Terminator Armour?

I'd settle for Armoured Shell giving EW and Slow and Purposeful. Maybe a small price drop on Carnifexes.

yeah termie armour for Fex,
im tired of thunderhammer Storm shields outright killing carnifexes without a chance at survival...

3's to hit 2's to wound and no chance at a save? that means 3 TH SS standing still can kill at LEAST 1 fex a round, at 120 pts... not including missles that do the same from arross the board...

hive tyrants die that fast too. granted 4's to hit and 2's to wound. no invon save means they just die

Hit the Termies with Paroxysm, they'll need 5's to hit. That's halving the incoming blows, even better than a 5++. Regardless, TH/SS Termies are top tier MC killers and should not be engaged by them; either isolate them, or force them to roll 1's with saturated fire or Roidgaunt spam.

Catalyst and a Gargoyle screen can easily reduce Krak Missile casualties by 75%. To really buff up a Fexstar's endurance, have a couple of Tyranids Prime jump in so the unit is as easily hidden as infantry and can allocate wounds.

If you haven't read http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319613.page already, it's a very handy tactica thread.