Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I recently played in a local tournament, and suffice to say I had a great time. 12 players, and not a single one a bad person. However, in playing the tournament, I experienced something that rather irks me. When playing someone they are all happy, tend to gloat and boast the power of their unit, and generally just be a standard player until the it looks like they might lose. At that point, they just shut down, stop talking, despise rolling the dice for anything, and simple put become a pain in the arse to play. This is something I never suffer from though, and I don't see why nobody can emulate me. Here is an example of the progression of expecting to win to expecting to lose in a game as an IG player

Start of the game (hope your ready to suck on my lasguns!)
Expect everything to work (I don't even know why I'm rolling scatter, my lemans nevar miss har har)
Expect a few things to work (Ok so you raped my tanks face, but I've still got my mechvets! Eat flamers and melta!)
Expect to lose the game (Looks like my football pads and paper armor is failing me!)
Expect one thing to work (Okay, you destroyed my armoured sentinels heavy flamer, but you missed his main weapon! EAT FOOT! *sentinel close combat attack*)
Do something crazy (Forward guardsmen! Their daemon prince/terminators/Nurgle Bikers will taste the steel of our bayonets!)
Lose the game (my dice are hacked!/honorless ork player!/Should have fielded more lasguns!)

That is pretty much how I play all my games and it pretty much ensures I'm having fun throughout the entire game. If I can't beat your army the legit way, Ill get my small victory by having my sentinel kick one of your troops to death, or having my guardsmen take down something in CC they have no business being in close proximity to.

So how do you guys deal with a bummed out loser? How do you handle losing?

this has been brought up in white dwarf before,i believe they called it "the face"everythings great until your game isn't going quite to plan.then the frown,lack of humour etc.
i think its only human no'one likes getting their ass handed to them.

Me and my friends usually bale and surrender when the battle seems hopeless. Up until this point only I actually tried to finish a game till the end, and hilariously I managed to even the odds a bit in the final moments (however I still lost by a good margin, mainly because I was unable to damage my friend's Avatar).

I think I managed to keep my enthusiasm through every game I played at the tournament I was in, despite losing all of them. {Though I was given credit for a tie on one because we got cut off with an un-finished round and my opponent gave me the benefit of the doubt that I was capable of tying it up in my turn that got cut off. }

I suck at tactics though, so the whole game I'm just kind of like "If I roll well, you're dead!" and I constantly do things that probably aren't the best choices but seem like they would make an epic story. Like taking on a Defiler in close-combat with Daemonettes Lesser Demons because "Hey, at least you can't shoot me." It actually would've worked great as a stall tactic if I had more than like... 2 marines left on the rest of the field.

I always insist on finishing friendly games, though, unless time prevents it. (Otherwise, No Mercy! For myself or anyone else.) And I would never be reluctant to roll the dice, even if I think my dice must hate me that day. I can still hope for "divine" intervention from the Chaos Gods.

I'll never outright surrender. I wouldn't mind if someone else does it, but if I'm all but certain I'm going to lose, I just put myself into really suicidal positions to end the game asap. Tactics are thrown out the window as tank shocks and assaults begin.

I find playing ave maria during my sob shooting phase is a good way to accept the fact that I will lose.

The only time that I will concede a game is if there is no further possibility of achieving the mission. (No more scoring units to take objectives, enemy has less units remaining than I need to gain the upper hand in KP) I have pulled out a win, or at least a draw on the sixth or seventh turn before when I only had one or two units left, so it's not a good idea to just give up halfway through because things look bleak. On the other hand, if my opponent starts to believe he has lost, I will gladly confirm his suspicions for him.

This is one advantage of having multiple levels of winning, or multiple mission objectives. It can provide a challenge even if the game is lost.

I mean, in a lot of book missions, played straight, there can be games where it's easy to tell when the game is over. On the other hand, it's also rough to sit there and watch your opponent work to score every possible point at your expense. I think that when both players are experienced and comfrotable, games can be finished quicker once they are essentially decided.

Heh, had the "Loser Syndrome", suffice to say my opponent tabled me while only having to fire 3 weapons in one turn... Damn Daemon Deployment rules... Though I never "Think" I'm going to win when my opponent puts down 12-15 Freaking vehicles.

At some point, if I'm likely going to lose, I just forget about the chance of winning and love to go down as hard as possible flailing about like a beast going for vicious mean spirited vendetta inspired glory kills. This makes it more fun (on both sides I assume), but I do suffer from a kind of "should we bother finishing?" ennui if it's REALLY obvious by the end of turn 5. There's not been many games where it was so obvious as to give up trying earlier than that though.

The day I delivered the last wound to an Hive Tyrant with an Eldar ranger in cc I learned about hoping against the odds.

The day I failed to kill off an already wounded one right in the face of my entire army with 8 meltagun Fire Dragon shots I learned about forget-the-win just RAGE KILL because that can be fun too.

It's not so much losing as much as getting your teeth kicked in. I can have a blast and still lose. The big difference is if those little victories you mentioned actually work - When I go for that last charge with my Guardsmen on turn 5 that has something of a 1/10 chance of working, only to roll snake eyes for their charge range in front of a Land Raider Crusader, I get pretty glum. Not so much because I'm losing, but because I'm missing out on the chance to do something awesome.

I'm not immune to getting bummed out about losing, but I try not to dwell on the things I can't control.

- I can't control if my opponent is using a "Tome of Cheese" codex and I'm not.
- I can't control the scenario or objectives (which may not favor my army or list).
- I can't control how the dice roll.

However:

- I can control how my army looks on the table (i.e. I take pride in how my army looks, it's part of the enjoyment of the game for me.)
- I can control my initial strategy and approach to the game.
- I can control how I try to use my units.
- I can control how I react to adversity on the table top. (i.e. can I adapt my approach to changing battlefield situations?)
- If all else fails, I look for the one or two things that went right that game and focus my mental energy on those.
- I may not be able to control feeling angry or sad at a terrible game outcome, but I can control not acting like a DB and ruining my opponent's valuable playing time.

This happens to me all the time. The worst reaction I've ever had was when I already know that I can't do anything by the end of like turn 2. I played a game against my necron buddy, and after he stole the initiative, his monolith exploded my Land Raider with a Chao Lord and retinue of Beserkers (who were forced to foot slog across the board, and get even more in range of monolith. His heavy Destroyers than managed to wreck a Rhino. Then on turn 2, while his Monolith moved into range with the Flux Projector (the one that hits every unit within 12 inches) rolled max hits, dealt a 2 wounds, and then all of his necron warriors managed to turn their attention to my Daemon Prince while hiding in cover. 45 shots killed the Daemon Prince in a single round of shooting. And his heavy destroyers blew up another rhino. So at the end of turn 2 I had 1 Lord, 7 Beserkers, 1 Rhino, and 21 Chaos Marines. My Obliterators had yet to come in, and I was down major fire power from the lack of Land Raider.

I got quiet very quickly, I couldn't make a save, he couldn't fail an attack roll and I basically shut down. At the end of the game (it ended on turn 5) I had the Chaos Lord, 2 Beserkers, and 7 marines. He lost his heavy destroyers, a single lord, and a unit of warriors...

Another time was pretty recently when my tyranids went up against a mini kan wall at 500 points. By the end of the third turn I had lost my Tervigon and 30 some termagants. He managed to lose... nothing. His Deff Dread and Kans murdered my army.

I shut down quickly when I know there is nothing I can do. I couldn't get rear armor on his Kans or Dread, I couldn't keep the monolith from blowing everything up (stupid lack of heavy fire power). I've gone up against other armies that I immediately felt I would lose too, but because it looked possible I was having fun and felt I could still win the game, but it stops being fun when its a massacre in my opponent's favor. Its a game and it should be fun, but being tabled early in the game is not my definition of fun, even when I'm the one doing the tabling.

I hate losing, because I have the uncanny ability to predict what will go wrong before it happens, but then it's just depressing when those bad things happen and you're just waiting to lose.

I've had it the other way around. When I was new to the game I played necrons vs. a really experienced eldar player in a local tourney. He raged the entire time about how my 2 (or 3 can't remember) monlith list was cheese. I didn't know all the rules as well as I should have and he beat me pretty easily. As his confidence grew he started to enjoy himself by talking about how great of a player he was to have beaten such a cheesy list. Not only did he start rubbing his victory in my face but he would not let it go for the rest of the night (he was my first opponent of 3). one of the worst experiences i've had playing this game. Thank god I only ever saw the guy 1 or 2 more times.

Yep, I'm of the "death or glory" mindset. If we get to turn 5-6 and it's unsalvageable, tank shocks and mass charges come into play.

I have had more enjoyable losses the wins sometimes due to the type of player we are talking about.

Daemons player that I first turn I jammed my rune priest forward to set up a Tempest Wrath zone. When it killed his deployment plans and I was able to pretty much range everything deep striking in with heavy weapons, the complaining about useless units, useless dice, and then my single rune priest being overpowered, it just killed the win for me.

On the losing side, I never surrender. Even when obvious that a miracle would be needed, I still play and my opponents have a blast as we shift from the competitive nature of a tourney game into the fluff nature of battling armies. By taking that course of action, I have had opponents that remember me 10 years + after having played them and the funny moments I made them remember about the game that stuck with them.

I have even done this attitude in Ard Boyz, making some of the competitve gamers loosen up and enjpy the game beyond the WAAC taint some think of Ard Boyz.

I lose a lot. I haven't won since that Tyranid apoc event last January so knowing when "that mood" sets in is quite easy. I counter this by continuing with my normal quirky demeanor while fueling my humor with more crude words than sates me, and no one has given me the awkward "oh boy here's a poor sport" glance.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:I lose a lot. I haven't won since that Tyranid apoc event last January so knowing when "that mood" sets in is quite easy. I counter this by continuing with my normal quirky demeanor while fueling my humor with more crude words than sates me, and no one has given me the awkward "oh boy here's a poor sport" glance.

I like to think of myself as a graceful loser, but I don't think I could lose every game since January without being seriously disheartened.

I lose quite a bit, I'm ok with this considering I play against some of the best players in the country. If I'm really getting kicked I'll try to gleam some moral victories out of the game.

Killing HQ units (especially ethereals), tank shocking things, anyhting that I get a kick out of.

I have a tale to tell I guess, I have been thinking about this ennui idea since I last posted. Appologies if it may be lengthy but I think I know what the real problem is with the "bad loser" thing.

Well to start, I have the rare privelige of having only one opponent any more, (who is a member here too), very well "ranked" in tournaments, and kind of uses my losses as mentor sessions. We don't play often, and he usually wins. In fact, the only WIN I had against him was our first game against each other when I came back after my 10 year hiatus. Everything else has been loss (mostly) or tie. I display the typical signs of hopelessness occasionally when I learn that I am just SOL by something or other in his list, and instead of gloating, he explains possible counters to it, and cheers me up a bit (he is my brother after all, not just some guy I know).

In addition, my beatdown trainer big brother is an experienced enough gamer that his lists are not just a tasty platter of spam and cheese, so it keeps things fluctuating and gives me insights in how to approach different kinds of armies. If anything I am grateful for those games, but I do still get bummed if I feel hopelessly outclassed by something (especially if it is something FW, because I just kind of hate FW stuff for many reasons).

When I played at the store league a couple of years ago however I had a very different approach. I was in a weekly league game and everyone was kind of unskilled. I was not the only veteran player there, but I was very obviously the only veteran who discussed things online or thought about the game meta or put careful thought and revision into my army lists.

I slaughtered those guys for wholesale discounts on a regular basis. I was not a bad winner either, sure I was full of happy spunky rockstar feeling about being the guy everyone was scared to fight when they got the next week's assignment, but I was always trying to make things fun, even to the point of trying to dumb down my army conveniently forgetting about having a few hundred points left to spare when I had to play against the token league kid. These were good days, and we would all go outside in the middle of winter and talk about our crap jobs while smoking cigs between turns, or bantering about other old D&D experiences ets. There was solidarity.

Then IT happened. New guy entered. What did he enter with? The biggest bag of new codex spam plus forgeworld optional rules anyone had ever seen in this little FLGS. Not just SW, but SW like the pinnacle of every "how do I make it more competative" query on here rolled into one. He was just absolutely no fun for anyone he played against, not really sociable like the rest of us (complaining to the store owner, our buddy, about us having smoke breaks between turns - a longtime tradition there - for instance)

This singlehandedly made everyone who had to play against him miserable over the next two months, made everyone who witnessed the games start complaining that their codex wasn't good enough, and sent me into my "Space Wolves are for WAACoffs who can't win without their broken Codex" mindset that I doubt if I, or anyone else in that league, will ever fully recover from. The guy really wasn't very good. He just stomped down the middle of a table like a kid smashing an anthill. No finesse, no calculated risk taking, no class at all.

I saw this guy ruin the experience and make 21 other players jaded about the game.

When I played him (I was actually the first opponent when he joined, as I was the current leader), I understandably lost, having never seen the new wolf dex, and being used to playing friendly style army matchups. I tarnished my mystique of no losses (not that it really mattered but it was a cool little league persona to joke around with), lost faith in the game designers, and met my first ever WAACoff and all that it entailed.

After that, I am fundamentally jaded every time I see some new flavor of the month being hashed out in the army lists forums to be the most competative as it can be. I even help some of them occasionally if its an Eldar question from an obviously confused newer player, but it doesn't make it any less hateful a way of approaching the game.

When I had to play against that, I was truly miserable, as was everyone else who played him, and even the people who didn't but just saw it resented him. Like he just told everybody "my army rocks and you are dumb for not using one like mine" without actually saying as much.

Just something to think about. Sometimes being a sore loser is kind of the winners fault.

Me and my mate were playing recently, and in the opening turn he flatened my army commander and elite bodyguard, then took out my best weapon in the game (and with it any hope of taking out his leman russ). needless to say I was pretty dissapointed, and was half-considering throwing in the towel before even taking a shot. Anyway I persevered and actually managed to win by a few victory points, only due to the missions we drew (mine was particularly suited to my army, his was particularly unsuited, sheer luck really).

But yeah, I was pretty crestfallen that he had taken out so much of my army before I'd even rolled a dice.

fething imperial guard with their fething ordinance falling randomly from the sky, I hate it

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Me and my friends usually bale and surrender when the battle seems hopeless. Up until this point only I actually tried to finish a game till the end, and hilariously I managed to even the odds a bit in the final moments (however I still lost by a good margin, mainly because I was unable to damage my friend's Avatar).

Giving up when it looks like you've lost is, to me, just as bad as turning into a grouch when you're losing. Mostly because someone who doesn't get grouchy, but starts thinking when they're losing, makes for a good opponent. I've had opponents come back on the final turn or two when it looked like I'd all but won, and snatch the game.

Guitardian wrote:I have a tale to tell I guess, I have been thinking about this ennui idea since I last posted. Appologies if it may be lengthy but I think I know what the real problem is with the "bad loser" thing.

Well to start, I have the rare privelige of having only one opponent any more, (who is a member here too), very well "ranked" in tournaments, and kind of uses my losses as mentor sessions. We don't play often, and he usually wins. In fact, the only WIN I had against him was our first game against each other when I came back after my 10 year hiatus. Everything else has been loss (mostly) or tie. I display the typical signs of hopelessness occasionally when I learn that I am just SOL by something or other in his list, and instead of gloating, he explains possible counters to it, and cheers me up a bit (he is my brother after all, not just some guy I know).

In addition, my beatdown trainer big brother is an experienced enough gamer that his lists are not just a tasty platter of spam and cheese, so it keeps things fluctuating and gives me insights in how to approach different kinds of armies. If anything I am grateful for those games, but I do still get bummed if I feel hopelessly outclassed by something (especially if it is something FW, because I just kind of hate FW stuff for many reasons).

When I played at the store league a couple of years ago however I had a very different approach. I was in a weekly league game and everyone was kind of unskilled. I was not the only veteran player there, but I was very obviously the only veteran who discussed things online or thought about the game meta or put careful thought and revision into my army lists.

I slaughtered those guys for wholesale discounts on a regular basis. I was not a bad winner either, sure I was full of happy spunky rockstar feeling about being the guy everyone was scared to fight when they got the next week's assignment, but I was always trying to make things fun, even to the point of trying to dumb down my army conveniently forgetting about having a few hundred points left to spare when I had to play against the token league kid. These were good days, and we would all go outside in the middle of winter and talk about our crap jobs while smoking cigs between turns, or bantering about other old D&D experiences ets. There was solidarity.

Then IT happened. New guy entered. What did he enter with? The biggest bag of new codex spam plus forgeworld optional rules anyone had ever seen in this little FLGS. Not just SW, but SW like the pinnacle of every "how do I make it more competative" query on here rolled into one. He was just absolutely no fun for anyone he played against, not really sociable like the rest of us (complaining to the store owner, our buddy, about us having smoke breaks between turns - a longtime tradition there - for instance)

This singlehandedly made everyone who had to play against him miserable over the next two months, made everyone who witnessed the games start complaining that their codex wasn't good enough, and sent me into my "Space Wolves are for WAACoffs who can't win without their broken Codex" mindset that I doubt if I, or anyone else in that league, will ever fully recover from. The guy really wasn't very good. He just stomped down the middle of a table like a kid smashing an anthill. No finesse, no calculated risk taking, no class at all.

I saw this guy ruin the experience and make 21 other players jaded about the game.

When I played him (I was actually the first opponent when he joined, as I was the current leader), I understandably lost, having never seen the new wolf dex, and being used to playing friendly style army matchups. I tarnished my mystique of no losses (not that it really mattered but it was a cool little league persona to joke around with), lost faith in the game designers, and met my first ever WAACoff and all that it entailed.

After that, I am fundamentally jaded every time I see some new flavor of the month being hashed out in the army lists forums to be the most competative as it can be. I even help some of them occasionally if its an Eldar question from an obviously confused newer player, but it doesn't make it any less hateful a way of approaching the game.

When I had to play against that, I was truly miserable, as was everyone else who played him, and even the people who didn't but just saw it resented him. Like he just told everybody "my army rocks and you are dumb for not using one like mine" without actually saying as much.

Just something to think about. Sometimes being a sore loser is kind of the winners fault.

Yeah, I can understand how someone like this would become the pariah of the gaming communities. With me, I REALLY don't like playing people who have absolutely no humor throughout the game. Be it a grouch or a WAACoff, I can't stand someone who can't even crack a smile while playing with painted pieces of plastic in a fictitious battleground with over the top armies.

I recall one tourny I went to, once again at a FLGS, that was some sort of apoc game. Anyways, it was 3v3, and on their team, they had some daemons and IG, and our team was IG and space marines. Player wise, I recall one person on there team wasn't taking everything that seriously, the rest were just sorta stern faced. On my side, I had a kid who was just starting out the hobby, looked maybe 12, and this...ugh...other guy. I can't recall the physical traits to give a mental image of him besides he was just kind of heavy set. However, it's not his looks that I can remember the most, but his attitude. I'd like to say he was a WAACoff, but not sure. He was all serious the whole game, and when we started and found out we'd be getting shot by a baneblade every round by the other team that we would never reach, I think he caught loser syndrome. Anyways, as the turns went on, he felt it necessary to recite every rule of the game, like moving in the movement phase, and other such basic things. This alone was dealt with eventually ("Dude I know the basic rules, you don't have to repeat them to me every time, damn"), and he acted all hurt when I said it but really didn't care at that point. This was because every time the baneblade targeted my vehicles, and basically one shotted them, he would look at me and yell boom in some deep voice, sometimes looking me square in the eyes. Being that this guy was on my team, and he damned annoying as it was, I REALLY wanted to run my palm and backhand across his face more than a few times. Now, I'm not sure this is loser syndrome or not, but it very well could have been. Worst part is the guy I got along with best was an opposing player using a brass scorpion. He kept trying to make it blow up on me, and I kept avoiding it, and we had a few laughs during that ordeal.

I try to always be jolly, and make comments on moves when I get crushed like a beetle.

EDIT: I stopped trying to be a tactical genius Hurrrr after the first few games, after realises most of strategies completely broke up on contact with the enemy.

I'm stoked if I even get a game at the moment, win or lose I don't care so long as the 142nd get some fun.

I gotta say, there have been some games, usually the simpler ones where you aren't hashing through multiple stacks of special rules and abilities piled up for every turn, where two players just joyfully blow each others random collection of half-thought out toys to pieces. I find this the most fun way to play - but some guy will inevitable show up with all the game bogging special exception rules and stuff and ruin our poo-flinging contest by adding all that stuff in the mix. Then everyone has to pay attention to what they are doing again.

yar! play beerhammer!

I actually dont even see why you should "expect" things to work.

Whilst playing i always work out the statistics of how many wounds i should employ on average what the chances are of scattering with a TL gun for example and i ALWAYS think about my mid game and how i want to enter it and what the point of my mid to late game is. this is pretty important because it gives you direction in your play.

and ofc always think 2-3 turns ahead.

I don't believe in giving up. I've eked out Wins or Draws from bad situations more times than I can honestly remember, and had it done to me more than a few times.

If worse comes to worst, you laugh at the dice, enjoy the look of the models on the table, and set little crazy goals (like kicking something to death with your Sentinels).

If depressed about losing, try to take a step back and think what a privilege it is to play with our toys like this. Just to have the money and free time to build and paint this stuff. These are toys we could only dream of as children, and which most kings and emperors throughout human history would be jealous of. You could be homeless, or living in a third world country right now. Instead, you're comfortable and playing a game.

As a good friend of mine always says: "at least we're not working" - you're still (probably) hanging out with your friends, and if you're just shooting the breeze over the game it's a lot of fun. I got tabled on turn 4 today but I didn't mind since I was hanging out with my buddy and that's what matters.