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I posted a 1500 point Grey Knight duel Terminator deathstar coming out of land raiders. People asked how I would expand it but I wouldn;t want to as the entire point of the list was to have 2 deathstars at 1500 knowing most 1500 armies owuldn;t be able to deal with it. But that got me thinking I'd pumped 400+ points into the librarians leading the units so could I do this list but at 1000 points. As I'm starting to think that GKs can really excell at lower point value games. So heres my 1000 point list and I can't see many all comers 1k list being able to deal with duel landraider Terminator squads so here goes:

Inquisitor - Servo Skull 28

Terminator Squad - 4 Halberds, Daemon Hammer, Psycannon 225

Terminator Squad - 4 Halberds, Daemon Hammer, Psycannon 225

Landraider Redeemer - Multimelta, Psybolt Ammo 260

Landraider Redeemer - Multimelta, Psybolt Ammo 260

Total 998

What do you think? Would this be competitive at that point level? 4 Psycannons and 2 Multi-meltas to deal with what should be largely reduced amounts of armour. 4 Psycannons, 8 Stormbolters and 4 Flamestorms to deal with hordes and MEQs. And then the Terminators to deal with MCs other Terminators and MEQs and Characters.

The list is interesting should be fun, but i think it would fail vs a de list, alot of lances and ap2 and not many choices for them to shoot at.

How many Lances at 1000 points would they have? Enough to deal with 2 Landraiders that can't be suppressed? Unlikely. Sure they could get lucky with 2 DL shots but if I'm smoked that first turn of shooting they'll need around 27 dark light shots to take out 1 Landraider. How many 1k DE lists have 27 Dark Lances?

FlingitNow wrote:How many Lances at 1000 points would they have? Enough to deal with 2 Landraiders that can't be suppressed? Unlikely. Sure they could get lucky with 2 DL shots but if I'm smoked that first turn of shooting they'll need around 27 dark light shots to take out 1 Landraider. How many 1k DE lists have 27 Dark Lances?

The dice gods hear you, and mark your demise as we speak, lol.

But, i played 1000 points last week, he had a ravager, and a couple lances and blasters on all his squads.

FlingitNow wrote:How many Lances at 1000 points would they have? Enough to deal with 2 Landraiders that can't be suppressed? Unlikely. Sure they could get lucky with 2 DL shots but if I'm smoked that first turn of shooting they'll need around 27 dark light shots to take out 1 Landraider. How many 1k DE lists have 27 Dark Lances?

Well, in a 1000 point game, 2 ravagers could be achieved with ease, at 115 points each (including flickerfield, 125 w/ night shields as well). Thats 6 Dark Lances for > price of a land raider. Plus, we would probably take about 3/4 troop choices, in raiders, thats another3/4 lance shots, and maybe we would have room for a small squad of trueborn with 2 Dark Lances, or 3 Blasters or so, so that could be about 11-13 Darklight shots a turn. Just some perspective on that.

Well, in a 1000 point game, 2 ravagers could be achieved with ease, at 115 points each (including flickerfield, 125 w/ night shields as well). Thats 6 Dark Lances for > price of a land raider. Plus, we would probably take about 3/4 troop choices, in raiders, thats another3/4 lance shots, and maybe we would have room for a small squad of trueborn with 2 Dark Lances, or 3 Blasters or so, so that could be about 11-13 Darklight shots a turn. Just some perspective on that.

Yes that is possible and with total DL spam I could be looking at maybe 13 DL weapons total. Which is nearly enough to pop an unsmoked Raider a turn. Facing that I'd ensure that not all DL would be in range/LoS for his first turn (if he went first) then trundle forward pop smoke. Then target him with 3 Psycannons (i'll assume 1 gets blown off) which should take out 3 paper plane plus a pair of multimeltas should mean another plane is gone and thats pretty much game over for the DE. If I can't hide I reserve everything and still do tthe same thing. Yes I come on peicemeal but due to me being able to ignore stunned and shaken it isn't much on an issue.

Not saying I'd win everytime and that is probably one of the worst matchups for me and I still can't see it causing me undue problems without getting lucky on the DL shots. And only proper DL spam would cause me problems and I'm the only 1 I know who really goes for total Dark Light spam with DE, lots of people like to assault with them for some reason (insanity if you ask me).

You are talking about a very particular match up.

This list of GK isn't build especially to play vs DL Spams but is more one ALL COMERS setup.

Most of DE lists in 1000pts games wouldn't field so much DL for ALL COMERS tournaments and talking about some more wise setup they're gonna loosing some effectiveness vs this kind of lists.

So, on paper, I like your list FlingItNow.

I'm just not sure about the Terminators. They fit well with the LR setup but I don't particulary like them when you'll can have mroe wounds allocations magic with power armoured models. Especially when, if both using a lot of Halberds, you doesn't really lose a lot of CC potential.

Besides, I know that point-wise it's hard, I will try to take the Crusader patters profiting at 100% of the Psybolt ammo. Otherwise I will drop this bonus.

I've gone with Terminators because strikes with special weapons are hugely overcosted. I've gone with Halberds because I need to hit first due to low model count. Wound allocation on 1 wound models is of marginal benefit.

I didn't take the Crusader pattern because its not as efficient as the Redeemer in this codex due to the Psybolt upgrade. The main reason the Crusader is taken for other codexes is due to the Hurricane bolters being defensive weapons giving you more firepower on the move (you can move 6" and fire everything) by adding psybolt you lose that benefit. Which makes the cheaper Redeemer far more appealing. I gain the Psycannon but get no drawbacks and am cheaper.

Dude thats a massive challenge for your self their man! get one of the the reedmers and place it with a land raider with las cannons so it takes out any tanks you might loose specially if they have lance weapson,

What about triple vindicators? wont they pwn your land raiders and your termies?

How many people are likely to bring triple vindicators at 1000 pts?

There 's only one thing that bugs me a bit about this list... the idea of a small, elite GK force is just dandy, and can't really be complained about in terms of background authenticity. It's the weakling HQ that bothers me a bit... not that I'd quibble about it from a purely gaming perspective, but if a 'proper' leader could somehow be squeezed in it'd be a very classy little list. Even as it stands, I like the thinking.

Did you mean to take psyflame ammo?

Yeah how many triple vindicator list appear at 1000 points? Yes if you tailor a list to beat this you can. Take 2 Vindicators and 10 Sternguard with combi-meltas in a drop pod. Drop down pop both raiders and then vindi each squad - game over. However against all comers lists at 1000 points only DL spam is likely to have any sort of chance of dealing with me and even then only if they get a good first round of shooting in before I can pop smoke or start wrecking their vehicles.

Dude thats a massive challenge for your self their man! get one of the the reedmers and place it with a land raider with las cannons so it takes out any tanks you might loose specially if they have lance weapson,

I didn't take a Godhammer because it is more points for less anti-tank. The redeemer with psycannons actually performs BETTER against AV14 than the Godhammer! Plus I lose the duel threat, the redundancy and the AI fire. Not a good option.

Did you mean to take psyflame ammo?

No why would I want that?

FlingitNow wrote:

Did you mean to take psyflame ammo?

No why would I want that?

you have flame cannons and a multi melta none actaully fire bullets. Psyflame should be chosen instead herpp derrp

He has a TL assault cannon also.

I would like to battle you with my deldar too bad I dont know who you are or where you live/game XD

the list is interesting, I'd like to try it out myself at some point but I would like at least one laz raider in ther to pop any other tanks

you have flame cannons and a multi melta none actaully fire bullets. Psyflame should be chosen instead herpp derrp

Flame storms are already S6 do I need to go to S7 to deal with Plague marines and bikes? At 1k in an all comers list for 20 points no thanks.

I would like at least one laz raider in there to pop any other tanks

Getting that would mean I wouldn't be able to afford a MM on it so it is worse at popping tanks than my redeemer by some distance (remember against Av14 a Psycannon is equal to 2.67 Lascannons). So why would you want it for a job my tank already does better?

yes but thats only one shot, a laz raider has 2 twin linked ones at a longer range which can fire at 2 separate targets. I would use that one to sit on a home OBJ and the redeemer to push my opponent off his/her OBJ if playing home and away and much the same for the other OBJ game. kill points works much the same way. sit back and shoot with laz and drive ford and burn with the redeemer.

its a good list, dont get me wrong but I personally would feel better with 2 TW lazcannons

Agreed on the psybolt ammo, giving the raider a psycannon is pretty neat for anti tank

DPBellathrom wrote:yes but thats only one shot, a laz raider has 2 twin linked ones at a longer range which can fire at 2 separate targets. I would use that one to sit on a home OBJ and the redeemer to push my opponent off his/her OBJ if playing home and away and much the same for the other OBJ game. kill points works much the same way. sit back and shoot with laz and drive ford and burn with the redeemer.

its a good list, dont get me wrong but I personally would feel better with 2 TW lazcannons

If you're buy a raider for the lascannons, mind as well scrounge up more points for x2 psybolt rifleman dreads

could do, but then the GK's dont have anything to ride in lol

I think the point of the list is to get forward into 24" range, shoot, then get the paladins stuck in. Taking lascannon means you're undermining that idea by holding back half your force in order to benefit from long range shooting that the other side will probably have more of.

yes but thats only one shot, a laz raider has 2 twin linked ones at a longer range which can fire at 2 separate targets. I would use that one to sit on a home OBJ and the redeemer to push my opponent off his/her OBJ if playing home and away and much the same for the other OBJ game. kill points works much the same way. sit back and shoot with laz and drive ford and burn with the redeemer.

I've still got 2 AT guns that can fire at separate targets and both are better than Lascannons (MM and Psycannon), heck one is better than both lascannons on its own (the psycannon). Spliting fire with the Lascannons is rarely a good idea though your chances of popping either tank you're firing at are too low so you have to prioritise and fire both at that 1 tank.

Also spliting the force weakens it. the Landraiders exist to transport the Terminators into assault. The Landraiders need to get to midfield by which point the difference in range is largely irrelevant.

It's a good 1k Point list.
Only problem is I can think of some lists that are All round that will give you a rough time.

I've watched a 1k BA game he roughly had a Vindicator and some Razorback spam.

Razorbacks charge foward MM's pop the tank Vindicator takes out a paladin squad. Then all he has to do is drive away from the paladin's sacrifice one squad to tie you up then fire the Vindicator at the remaining squad.

Game over.

I would say drop half of the paladins chuck in some Purifiers, Strikes and some Interceptors and you've got a good game.

You might have some trouble against long-range horde armies
(IG powerblobs with artillery support).

Yes I am aware how deadly those flamestorm cannons are to hordes (I play orks) but they are still template weapons, which means you have to be close, A regular opponent of mine can quite often fit 3 LR Demolishers in a 1000pt list, or 2 basilisk/medusa/etc. Given this set-up, you could easily pop a landraider a turn, then it's a case of watching your termis walk into rapid fire range, then get FRFSRF'ed, while those pie-plates keep on dropping.

FlingitNow, have you considered Stormraven Gunships instead of Land Raiders?

Of course they're more fragile than the tanks but you'll gain a lof of flexibility.

Not only in the moving phase but even in the shooting phase you'll can be extremely more effective than now imho.

You'll can equip them with TL MM, TL Assault Cannons + Psybolt Ammo having also the free missiles helping you vs hordes/swarms.

Besides, if you're concerned by the incoming enemy fire, choosing 2 Stormravens you'll also have the points for Coteaz.

ie, keeping your Terminators:
HQ - Coteaz. 100
TR - Terminator Squad - 4 Halberds - Hammer - Psycannon. 225
TR - Terminator Squad - 4 Halberds - Hammer - Psycannon. 225
FA - Stormraven - TL MM - TL Assault Cannon - Psybolt Ammo. 225
FA - Stormraven - TL MM - TL Assault Cannon - Psybolt Ammo. 225


I know that Coteaz will be almost unused this way but talknig about a win-at-all-costs 1000 pts army I think you'll have almost all you need this way.

- big chances to start first;
- better TL anti-tank weapons fastly in the optimal range;
- additional support fire (the one-shots missiles);
- same effectiveness in CC but earlier on target.

Just less effective vs very large Hordes due to the loss of template weapons.

If you'll consider to drop your Termies I will even propose you something like this:

HQ - Coteaz. 100
TR - 5x Strikers - 3x Halberds. 115
TR - 5x Strikers - 3x Halberds. 115
FA - Stormraven - TL MM - TL Plasma Cannon - one-shot Missiles. 205
FA - Stormraven - TL MM - TL Plasma Cannon - one-shot Missiles. 205
HV - Dreadnougth - Assault Cannon - Psybolt Ammo. 130
HV - Dreadnougth - Assault Cannon - Psybolt Ammo. 130

I know that Assault Cannons on Dreadnought aren't TL and how this can sound as a shame but with the high rate of fire and the Psybolt Ammo upgrade they sounded as the good choice for a 24" ruler. Besides they will fit well with the others weapons of the list where Stormravens will have to open heavy vehicles, Dreadnought light vehicles with the contents and Strikers just assault everything still alive (a lot of targets will probably be allready in combat with Dreadnoughts meaning that the Strikers will be safe from at least a turn of their returning attacks).

Why the plasma turrets on Stormravens? Just because TL Assault Cannons wouldn't be boosted by psybolt ammo unfortunately, TL Lascannons just don't sounds reliable to me and mostly because losing the Flamestorm cannons you will certainly need something to be used vs hordes, 2+ saves elites and eventually something viable for Rhino's rear armors. So why I considered the TL Plasma Cannons a versatile weapon for all these purposes, this will even allow you to fly your ravens out of usual infantry not-stationary weapons shooting at them still.

Of course your troops will be really more fragile than 10 terminators but hey.. what you will gain instead?
Besides you were not searching for a no brain list I guess.

Leigen_Zero wrote:A regular opponent of mine can quite often fit 3 LR Demolishers in a 1000pt list, or 2 basilisk/medusa/etc. Given this set-up, you could easily pop a landraider a turn, then it's a case of watching your termis walk into rapid fire range, then get FRFSRF'ed, while those pie-plates keep on dropping.

I'm currently running 2 manticores, a plasma CCS, and a five-template LR executioner in my 1000pt army I'm more scared of ork hordes than termies in land raiders.

But, FlingitNow, I do think your list would rock against certain armies. Just not all (but what list does, right?).

FlingitNow wrote:I posted a 1500 point Grey Knight duel Terminator deathstar coming out of land raiders. People asked how I would expand it but I wouldn;t want to as the entire point of the list was to have 2 deathstars at 1500 knowing most 1500 armies owuldn;t be able to deal with it. But that got me thinking I'd pumped 400+ points into the librarians leading the units so could I do this list but at 1000 points. As I'm starting to think that GKs can really excell at lower point value games. So heres my 1000 point list and I can't see many all comers 1k list being able to deal with duel landraider Terminator squads so here goes:

Inquisitor - Servo Skull 28

Terminator Squad - 4 Halberds, Daemon Hammer, Psycannon 225

Terminator Squad - 4 Halberds, Daemon Hammer, Psycannon 225

Landraider Redeemer - Multimelta, Psybolt Ammo 260

Landraider Redeemer - Multimelta, Psybolt Ammo 260

Total 998

What do you think? Would this be competitive at that point level? 4 Psycannons and 2 Multi-meltas to deal with what should be largely reduced amounts of armour. 4 Psycannons, 8 Stormbolters and 4 Flamestorms to deal with hordes and MEQs. And then the Terminators to deal with MCs other Terminators and MEQs and Characters.

I think you would have a hard time against my orks @ 1000pts

I've watched a 1k BA game he roughly had a Vindicator and some Razorback spam.

Razorbacks charge foward MM's pop the tank Vindicator takes out a paladin squad.

You can't have multimeltas on Razorbacks. If he gets lucky with the assault cannons or lascannons he can pop a raider but he's not very likely to. I should be able to take down 3 Razorbacks and stunn the Vindi in 1 turn of shooting and then it is game over.

Ork Deffrollas may cause me problems, Certain IG builds will have the firepower to deal with 2 Landraiders but those builds basically auto-lose to LSS Scouts so aren't a great option.

IG powerblobs could cause me issues but I'd fancy myself in a shooting match against those.

This list isn't a win button (no list is) but it is pretty horrific at 1k and most builds would struggle with it. As stated you could build an army to beat it 9 times out of 10 pretty easily (affore mentioned Sternguard and Vindi list). But Vindicators are rare in competitive play particularly at this point level certainly as anything more than just a fire magnet. There is reduced AT at this poiont level particularly ranged AT. Fast or DSing melta is the biggest concern to this list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Toban the reason I don't want storm Ravens are:

Almost any 1k build can deal with two AV12 Vehicles.

It doesn't actually get me into assault any quicker.

It reduces my firepower.

Whilst I see the benefits of Coteaz in a Henchmen low list and I'd love to take him here I just don't see switching the Storm Ravens as viable.

Would be fun to try though and I like your 2nd list idea. My issue with that is strikes just don't hit hard enough in CC to justify using a Storm Raven to transport them. Since you're taking Coteaz why not just use the 230 points on Death cult assassins instead? 2 units of 7 also allows you to get psybolt on both SRs and still have points for other upgrades. That way you get 28 PW attacks on the charge from each unit rather than 11...

I may be wrong but don't you HAVE to take a troop choice?

Surfboard66 wrote:I may be wrong but don't you HAVE to take a troop choice?

He has troops. Hes taking termies not paladins