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Hello DakkaDakka,

With 8th edition Warhammer has taken on a great deal of changes. These changes are both large and small, and with the first Army Book we're seeing the same amount of change. By reading the Doom Diver entry, it looks like a small change went by without much comment (or at least one that I could find).

Doom Diver Catapult:
The Doom Diver Catapult is a stone thrower, but because the Doom Diver has the ability to 'glide and guide' into to a target, it has some additional rules, detailed here. Fire the Doom Diver Catapult as a stone thrower. However, no template is used. Instead, place the flying Doom Diver Goblin model on the target point, and then roll for scatter as you would for a stone thrower. After doing this, you may roll a D6 and move the Doom Diver Goblin model by that many inches in any direction. If any units are touched by the Doom Divers base, then each must take D6 Strength 5 hits with no armor save allowed.

It now reads like the Doom Diver hits all of the units it goes through in the D6 inches after the normal stone thrower deviation. The parts of the rule that make me think this is what they intended is in the last sentence.

"If any units are touched" and "then each must take.."

Becuase it is "units" and not "unit" and when "each" is used I think the Doom Diver crashes through all units in the D6 rolled after scatter.

Many units have small changes to them that are different than the last book. For example, Savage Orc Big'Uns cannot take a Magic Banner, the Cave Squig being able to join Hopper units, Hoppers being Cav and now getting a mounted save. I invite you to read the Doom Diver entry and give me your feedback.

Blasto

Well, hm. Okay, so first, I'll point out that the Savage Big Un' no-magic-banner thing is, for all intents and purposes, a mistake.

On to the Doom Diver. Two questions:

- does it say you move the model that many inches, or up to that many inches? The old book had the latter rule, which meant that the D3 drift was even less useful.

- can we get a quote from the book on how this, for exact wording? If it reads something like "resolve the shot as you would for a stone thrower, then you may move the model D6" in any direction...", I'd support what you're saying. If it says something more like "scatter the shot as you would for a stone thrower. Then, before you resolve it...", it only hits a unit it lands on.

If the model does in fact move the full D6", I'd find your reading of the rule more believable, since it wouldn't be as useful. Then again, it is a "may", right?

Also, even if the model only hit what it was resting on in its final position, it could still touch multiple units, if the model's base is any amount larger than 1".

It does say that 'If any units are touched'. So from where it scatters to + the glide is what it hits. So if 2 units are next to eachother then you could hit both units.

I think they either wrote it like this on purpose just to make it more deadly or they missed a few words out, i.e 'At the point of impact after gliding' (at the begining of the last sentence).

Your first comment doesn't support itself on it's own. "if any units are touched" doesn't prove anything unless the model has one and only one base size, which is exactly 1" or less. Can we get a quote?

The DoomDiver text that I wrote is exactly as it is writen from the new O&G book. I've adjusted the post and added the quote tags. (sorry)

Ah. I see. Actual quotation marks (or dotted-line boxes) help.

In that case...it's completely ambiguous. How have people been using Purple Sun, and how did they come to that conclusion? I'd guess the answer lies in the same place.

Ok I think he is right it says place model at point of impact then move it up to d6 if it moves through a unit the base touched it

Warpsolution wrote:Your first comment doesn't support itself on it's own. "if any units are touched" doesn't prove anything unless the model has one and only one base size, which is exactly 1" or less. Can we get a quote?

The model for the flying goblin marker comes with a flying base; it's more than 1"; I think it's 35mm round.

-Matt

The Doom Diver does have a round 32mm base.
The rule does work exactly how the OP has stated now.
Place the Doom Diver Model at the target point, roll for scatter, move the model to the scattered point.
Now roll 1D6 and move the model this many inches in the direction of choice.
Any unit touched by the base along this 1D6 line is hit.

This situation arose at a small tournament at Games Workshops HQ in Nottingham , UK last week. We asked a judge for clarification and he stated that 'The multiple hits along the line are intended and this will be made clear in an upcoming FAQ'

Well, good. Because, as it stands in the book, there is no proof one way or the other. Especially since the base is larger than 1", so it could just be referring to situations where it hits multiple units from its final position.

I really couldn't care less how a given person thinks some rule or another works. I want me some proof. When I'm playing a game, I try to lean towards what was most likely intended. When I'm on this forum, it's time to bust out the grammar.

So, glad that's cleared up. But on a related note, how did people come to an answer with this same situation involving Purple Sun?

There was a thread a while ago where Salvage and I were talking about it, only a bit after 8th ed came out. I think it was largely because it didn't move based on scattering to land, but was placed then moved. Something like that I think, basically that it existed on the table after you place the template, then it moves, as opposed to scattering.

Hm. I see. I suppose that works for me.

So basically, people are saying that after the goblin makes contact with the ground (presumably by hitting it face-first), he then 'bounces' in any direction he wishes like a cannonball?

Clearly, their use of the plural word 'units' is to emphasize that the goblin now has a usable base, and his ending point can indeed cover more than one unit.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that a goblin with paper wings can choose a path to carve in the ground with his face.

I don't see it as the diver hitting the ground and then plowing through it and units alike. I see it more as the launcher was aiming at the original point, but through inaccuracy, wind, failed mechanics, or whatever, it was off target (scatters) but, the goblin doom diver having been equipped with said paper wings makes an adjustment midair to steer toward the intended target.

I guess if he's plowing through units, he's making the adjustment right before he hits the ground.

Yea, think of it more as he dives in towards the scatter point, then pulls up a bit and flies roughly parallel until he hits the ground, smacking everyone in the way.
I mean, the whole concept is stupidly silly, so I wouldn't over think it too much.

That description is exactly as the rule book depicts it.

There's no "clearly" about it, one way or the other, until you consider that, while most artillery shots "scatter", this guy "moves". It's still not rock-solid in my opinion; it's pretty ambiguous. But I'm currently leaning toward it.