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So i recently played a friend of mine who plays orks, I play necrons. Every game he plays he fills up his battle wagon with gakhul and a bunch of nobz with klaws that generally wreck anything they touch. I cant get to him on the first turn, if i dont, after the battle wagon moves its 13 carrying with it a truckload of death and destruction, i need 6's to hit it and thats assuming i can hit the side armor, the best gun i have is my monolith, anything else only gets the benefit of the gauss weapons always glancing on 6s. And if i put everything i have on it not only am i wasting shots that could be dedicated to killing the rest of his army but even after that all my shots usually the darn thing wont even be immobilized, to make that worse, he has grot riggers. So my questions: whats a good way to deal with a battle wagon? Can you deploy a waghh (version "prophet of the waghh" from gazkhul) is there a rul that stops them from getting out and assaulting after moving 13? anything to help me kill this big red monstrosity! If it helps you answer, i have 10 destroyers, 40 warriors, 1 destroyer lord tweeked out in close combat stuff, warscythe included on both the lord a few pariahs 7 scarabs and a monolith. I am also getting a nightbringer friday if that helps.

Thank you very much in advance

The NightBringer will pretty much put a stop to Ghaz. Ghaz is easily one of the top HQ in the game, but the NightBringer can out CC pretty much everything else. I dont play Necrons, nor do I really run BWs anymore, but if I had to suggest, Id say trade some of your warriors for h. destroyers? They have speed, range and the STR to pop a BW with ease.


Also why pariahs? Ive heard they are pretty much hated and overcosted to the point they are useless.

When you need 6s to hit the B-wagon, are you shooting or assaulting? Plus if you are assaulting it always counts as hitting the back unless its a dreadnought. So you can assault the front and you always take the back Armour, and when your shooting at it, it doesn't matter how fast it goes. You just use your BS

He would need 6s in either case (is you have that upgrade for assaulting a vehicle) Yea, honestly, shooting at the BW with your guass weapons is not how you want to go at it. If this were 4th edition then sure, but not in 5th. Id say as far as what you have listed, you need to either drop things and bring some others, or buy more units that CAN take one out and play a higher points game.

The problem as it is now, is you ignore the BW so your shots do something useful, but the bad part is, Ghaz is IN that BW and he does horrific things to your metal boyz


You could ask your friend to build an army without Ghaz

Yea thought as much, looks like the nightbringer is my only hope, thanks guys

You could still try to glance the battlewagon to an immobilized, takes some concentrated fire though. It will stand still for at least one turn, even if a bigmek or riggers manage to repair it.

You should be able to Maneuver some Destroyers to nab a Rear or Side shot, with ease.

Side shots won't increase the chance much, and by the time you can get rear shots the bw will most likely have dumped it's cargo onto the warriors.

Just reminding everyone that BWs are open-topped and as such can be glanced to death. Not that it's going to be reliable, but still.

Well yea, you can still glance things to death in 5th, its just about as close to a lost cause but you can still try. I personally would say dont try to gauss it to death. Sure you might get lucky, it DOES happen, but planning your attack around luck is just not how you do it, thats why FlashGits are not popular. Sure they COULD F up a terminator squad in one turn, they could murder a command squad, they could do alot of bad things, but in practice when the terminator squad drops down, you roll a 5 for your AP



Also I agree with Sasori on the rear shooting with the destroyers. Those guys are holy hell fast, and again their guns have good range on them so hitting a rear facing of a BW should be easy enough, I mean the things only move 12 inches a turn and smoking a AV10 isnt that hard to do, specially with all the shots they can make.

Why do you need to destroy it? Why isn't a stunned (or immobilized) result enough? I would Glance the BW a few times and concentrate on the rest of his army and then return to killing the BW untill the need arises Ofcourse this would not work if the BW has Extra Armour..

Go with dertroyer&nightbrinder list. Hds can bring it down easily with their 12 movement and lascannons, of course, with side shots. Nightbringer can also fire&assault it and can take out anything in cc AND keep boyz out of your warriors.

feluca wrote:Ofcourse this would not work if the BW has Extra Armour..

Which they should have

Glancing something to death is pretty hopeless when you're using just a few missile launchers to try and kill AV 14. But when pretty much every gun in your army glances on a 6, and you can rapid fire with those guns, your chances should be considerably better (especially since you can wreck a BW from a glance due to it being open-topped).

Of course, Ghaz will probably still get to your lines even if you kill his wagon. If you set it up so that 1 warrior squad is standing in a line in front of your 3 other squads, then hopefully you can absorb the charge with this first squad, which Ghaz will blatantly kill, then next turn pile the shots on him and have something nearby to countercharge (like the Nightbringer, Wraiths or Destroyer Lord). A necron player did exactly this against my 2 battlewagon, 2 trukk rush and managed to stop all my vehicles and counter charge my nasty CC units with his assualt specialists. I still barely managed a win (due to phase out) but it was a very good tactic (although its worth noting that I didn't have Ghaz or Nobz in my list).

Btw his 1500pts list was something like:
Destroyer Lord w/ Scythe
About 3-5 wraiths
3-4 Warrior units
4-5 Destroyers
1-2 Hvy Destroyers
4 Pariahs
(this was a few months ago so I'm pretty hazy on the details)

I think wraiths would be pretty annoying against Ghaz and Nobz cos their 3++ will foil powerklaws somewhat...

Battlewagons shouldn't be too hard for Necron's to put a stop to.

Monoliths have a Str9 Large Blast shot that will be AP1 if it doesn't scatter, meaning even with a glancing hit you've got a 4+ to immobilize or destroy it.

Heavy Destroyers have Str9 shots and the mobility to get side shots.

Pretty much every shooting weapon can glance it, and will immobilize/destroy on a 5+ due to OT.

It sounds like you're misplaying a rule. 6's are only needed to hit his BW in assault, and not shooting. Shooting is based off of BS.

In assault, Wraiths can tear up a battlewagon. You get a decent amount of hits on the charge, and those str5 hits will be hitting his AV10 rear armor.

I wouldn't use the Nightbringer to take down a bwagon, as it leaves him open to shooting, which is where he's weak. A unit of lootas can put a serious hurt on him.

Heffling wrote:Battlewagons shouldn't be too hard for Necron's to put a stop to.

Monoliths have a Str9 Large Blast shot that will be AP1 if it doesn't scatter, meaning even with a glancing hit you've got a 4+ to immobilize or destroy it.

Heavy Destroyers have Str9 shots and the mobility to get side shots.

Pretty much every shooting weapon can glance it, and will immobilize/destroy on a 5+ due to OT.

It sounds like you're misplaying a rule. 6's are only needed to hit his BW in assault, and not shooting. Shooting is based off of BS.

In assault, Wraiths can tear up a battlewagon. You get a decent amount of hits on the charge, and those str5 hits will be hitting his AV10 rear armor.

I wouldn't use the Nightbringer to take down a bwagon, as it leaves him open to shooting, which is where he's weak. A unit of lootas can put a serious hurt on him.

I didnt even consider this one, I just assumed he knew that. OP where you playing this correctly or wrong?


Im still not a fan of hoping glances will work. Like Ive stated a few times, it can work, but thats planning on luck working. Use your destroyers to get around the BW and take it downand use the NightBringer to kill whatever is inside. Focus the rest of you shots on the rest of the army, whittling them down to manageable numbers.

You can easily waste an entire turn or more hoping that you roll a few lucky glances, and by then the BW + payload are already at your doorstep.

OP:

Couple of notes for you. I play both Orks and Necrons - my last game against Orks, my opponent was using a close replica of my own Battlewagon Orks.

I play a Necron Wraith Wing:

Deceiver, Destroyer Lord (with Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Destroyer Body, Rez Orb), 11x Warriors, 12x Warriors, 3x3 Wraiths, 3x Monoliths.

It comes down to having the right tools for the job. A destroyer wing can't circumvent or outrun a battlewagon army. You can run to corners, but eventually a 12" move and 28" assault range is going to catch up with you if Lootas don't do it first.

In my last game, I lost two models in exchange for tabling my opponent. Two wraiths that didn't make WBBs, and for whom teleporting still didn't make WBBs.

1. Use terrain. A good board has some impassable terrain on it. You can't ram a monolith through impassable terrain, nor pivot to go around and then ram. And a monolith is a skimmer - it can land on top of impassable terrain. You can't get rammed or assaulted up there.

2. When you deep-strike, you've moved 12". Its your only opportunity the whole game to move 12". Ghazghkull needs a to hit.

3. You dodge rams (and deffrollas) on a 3+ because even though you're bulky and slow, you're still a skimmer.

4. You can never have too many monoliths. Orks can't assault what they can't get to. And you can teleport through your monoliths.

5. Your assault is better than theirs. It takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy to bring down and keep down a single wraith that charged them. After hitting and wounding, you have a 3+ save, a 4+ WBB, and a second 4+ WBB from monolith teleporting.

My Tomb Spyder wing (9x tomb spyders, 30 scarabs, immortals, warriors, destroyer lord) doesn't do very well on the table, but I've yet to meet someone who can bring down my Wraith Wing.

Give it a try.

Ah well now this is interesting my friend told me the rules as he understood it is that in the shooting and assault phase, if the BW moves 13 you need 6s to hit. as for the rest of you giving necron advice, thanks alot! im going to play him right now actually. wish me luck

Your friend is wrong. To hit rolls from shooting are 7-BS. For almost the entire necron army, that means you hit on 3s, regardless of how far your target moves. That alone oughta net you a BW kill. Glancing it to death ceases to become luck based when you have 50 or 60 shots that glance 1/6 of the time. Also make sure that you both know how Open-Topped affects the vehicle damage table, if you don't know how rolling to hit works it's a good bet that he hasn't been factoring that BW rule into what happens when your guns glance his vehicle either.

Dashofpepper wrote:OP:

Couple of notes for you. I play both Orks and Necrons - my last game against Orks, my opponent was using a close replica of my own Battlewagon Orks.

I play a Necron Wraith Wing:

Deceiver, Destroyer Lord (with Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Destroyer Body, Rez Orb), 11x Warriors, 12x Warriors, 3x3 Wraiths, 3x Monoliths.

It comes down to having the right tools for the job. A destroyer wing can't circumvent or outrun a battlewagon army. You can run to corners, but eventually a 12" move and 28" assault range is going to catch up with you if Lootas don't do it first.

In my last game, I lost two models in exchange for tabling my opponent. Two wraiths that didn't make WBBs, and for whom teleporting still didn't make WBBs.

1. Use terrain. A good board has some impassable terrain on it. You can't ram a monolith through impassable terrain, nor pivot to go around and then ram. And a monolith is a skimmer - it can land on top of impassable terrain. You can't get rammed or assaulted up there.

2. When you deep-strike, you've moved 12". Its your only opportunity the whole game to move 12". Ghazghkull needs a to hit.

3. You dodge rams (and deffrollas) on a 3+ because even though you're bulky and slow, you're still a skimmer.

4. You can never have too many monoliths. Orks can't assault what they can't get to. And you can teleport through your monoliths.

5. Your assault is better than theirs. It takes 72 attacks from an Ork boy to bring down and keep down a single wraith that charged them. After hitting and wounding, you have a 3+ save, a 4+ WBB, and a second 4+ WBB from monolith teleporting.

My Tomb Spyder wing (9x tomb spyders, 30 scarabs, immortals, warriors, destroyer lord) doesn't do very well on the table, but I've yet to meet someone who can bring down my Wraith Wing.

Give it a try.

You know Dash, Every time I've seen this list I've been tempted to dust off my Necrons. I've just kind of been waiting on the new Codex, in case there are going to be new models, as I don't have nine Wraiths. You should consider bringing your Necrons to your next tournament, And doing some Batreps on them. I'm sure the Necron Community would appreciate it.

My wife is painting my wraiths as we speak.

They'll be in attendance.

Dash judging by your stats and necron record you are clearly a very skilled player, with the troops i mentioned above what do you think the best way would be to go about killing an ork army? along with the battle wagon i meantioned, he has two squads of 30 boyz, one led by a warboss. some lootas, snikrot, rokkits, big shootas and dethkoptas he aslso has a grot-screen. Thank you very much in advance