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Hey guys. The question is pretty much what is on the tin: Is a wizard that uses Transformation of Kadon to turn into some sort of beast still a character that can be challenged out by other characters and champs in melee?

It doesn't really say it trades character status for monster, though it does point it out is now "technically a monster" it is only in reference to allowing it to remain with whatever unit the caster was joined to at the time of casting. At any rate, it doesn't seem that monstrous status and character status are mutually exclusive, seeing as how a character on a monster model is still a model that can be challenged in whole, and monstrous infantry characters like Doombulls can be challenged.

I suppose a follow up is: If Monsters can't be characters, does that mean Gaulrauch and Kholek can't be challenged? Hadn't really thought about that till just now.

I would say it is still a character...

Greater daemons are classed as monsters, and characters.

Character, is not a unit type. It's a special rule that applies to a model. Just like monsterous infantry can be characters and wizards (see ogre book), nothing says you lose the character rules just because you are (or become) a monster.

HawaiiMatt wrote:Character, is not a unit type. It's a special rule that applies to a model. Just like monsterous infantry can be characters and wizards (see ogre book), nothing says you lose the character rules just because you are (or become) a monster.

Actually Characters are a unit type:

BRB pg 96 wrote:Character Models: Characters are a special type of unit that can either operate on their own, or join another unit from the same side.

But you are correct about everything else:

Warhammer Fantasy V1.3 FAQ wrote:Q: If a model is transformed, for example by the Transformation
of Kadon or Sivejir’s Hex Scroll, do their special rules stop working
along with their magic items and equipment?(Reference)
A: No

So a character that is or becomes a monster can issue and accept challenges as I understand it.

And more importantly, is obligated to accept a challenge if he can't get out of base contact. So if that 50x50 base dragon is in a unit of 20x20 base models, such as Empire troops or say Ungors, he has to be moved off to the side, and so to avoid the challenge he has to be in a unit at least three deep, assuming you can shunt a model that is stuck on the side of a unit to the back of the side...

Come to think of it, I have no idea what happens then. There isn't anyone to go in front of him, because he must be at the side, so can he just line his butt up with the back of the unit and hope that takes his front out of base contact? Seems unlikely and silly, but that's the only way I can see him being able to avoid being in combat to avoid a challenge.

I dont see that happening, as that isnt a legal position for the model to take - you are either IN the unit, or off to the side and at the front.

Looks like you would be stuck, unless anyone else can find allowance for odd sized models?

Wehrkind wrote:And more importantly, is obligated to accept a challenge if he can't get out of base contact.

Page ref please.
AFAIK avoiding a challenge is done by simply sending a unit champ to his doom.

Presumably "and there is no other model capable of accepting a challenge in the unit" was implicitly tagged on there

*L* Right, sorry! I was thinking in terms of there not being someone else to take the shot in the face, just having rank and file with them, so the character can't refuse by simply going to the back of the unit like a normal coward. Er, skaven... er... character.