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In a recent league (so, semi-competetive) match, a situation has arisen when my Librarion was called to shoot his Avenger at a mob of orks. The best situation for me and fulfillment of the template rules would be to cover as many orks as possible (in that situation 6) but because I had other models in the squad my opponent insisted I tilt the template so that it would not cover any models in the Librarian's squad, thus hitting only 4 orks.

From my understanding, according to the Big Red Book, page 16:

Own unit: Firing models can always shoot through members of their own unit (just as if they
were not there), as in reality they would be
trained to take up firing positions to maximise
their own squad’s firepower.

and page 29:
Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template
so that its narrow end is touching the base of the
model firing it and the rest of the template covers
as many models as possible in the target unit
without covering any friends. Against vehicles, the
template must be placed to cover as much of the
vehicle as possible without also touching a friendly
model

The librarian should be able to ignore his own squad when firing the avenger as per rules from page 16, when he ignores his squadmates . In that case he is able to put more orks(6) under the template.

Thoughts?

You can trace LOS through your own squad, but you still have to follow the rule that the template may not be placed over friendly models.

Only 4 orks were hit.

I've always played it that the template can't touch friendly models.

You get to ignore your own squad members for LOS.

The template shooting rules are more specific than the general shooting rules, and thus overrule them if they conflict. This is how the entire ruleset and special rules function: A more specific rule trumps a more general rule.

You are not permitted to cover your own models when placing the template. You are forced to cover as many enemy models in the targeted unit as you possibly can, while obeying the restriction that you may not cover any of your own models.

I see there is agreement between the forum users. I guess you learn something new every day

Thanks.

How does that work then when shooting at an enemy unit on a second floor of a ruin?

Just like page 85 tells you. Pick which level you're shooting at. The template only affects/hits models on that level.

But lets say you have a squad of burna boyz shooting at a unit on 1 story higher then they are. Are all burna boyz able to fire their template at the squad even if they are behind other burna boyz because models on the same level as the burna boyz wouldnt be affected.

and just fyi the big red book is fantasy

y0disisray wrote:But lets say you have a squad of burna boyz shooting at a unit on 1 story higher then they are. Are all burna boyz able to fire their template at the squad even if they are behind other burna boyz because models on the same level as the burna boyz wouldnt be affected.

Excellent question. I'd say you need to place each template separately, following the usual rules/restrictions. I would think that if the burna boys are on ground level, and shooting at the second floor, those templates would functionally go "over" the burna boys in front of them at ground level.

I would have to agree. The rules for ruins do specify that only models on that level are affected, so as long as they're not shooting at their own level, theboyz would be free to ignore the other models in their unit when placing the template.

This is specific to ruins, though. Shooting at models in any other elevated terrain would follow the normal template rules.

I was just curious because that exact scenario happened to me in a game last weekend. My burna boyz were trying to prevent a squad of long fangs from contesting an objective on turn 6 while they were on the 1st story of a ruins. Luckily we played it the way you guys ruled it and I was just curious if that was the correct way.

What happened to the poor Long Fangs?

Hopefully they got burnt....

Slinky wrote:What happened to the poor Long Fangs?

I killed them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I play a non-competetive game, and one thing I was wondering whether you can fire at a unit that you can't necessarily see, but could still hit, such as if they were on the other side of a transport. could I fire at the transport, although knowing that there is no chance of it dying, in order to at least hit a few models on the other side of it? or would the transport prevent me from hurting them(I think the first choice, just making sure)

MEQ Breaker wrote:I play a non-competetive game, and one thing I was wondering whether you can fire at a unit that you can't necessarily see, but could still hit, such as if they were on the other side of a transport. could I fire at the transport, although knowing that there is no chance of it dying, in order to at least hit a few models on the other side of it? or would the transport prevent me from hurting them(I think the first choice, just making sure)

You can, but you need to place the template so it covers as much of the vehicle as possible.

most vehicles have too much surface area for me to hit as much as I can AND hit the other side... thanks for the help clearing that up. what about if I end up shooting say, a single character that is next to a wall of a building, and there is another enemy squad on the other side of said wall; the template then would cover them, too, so would they take the hit? I can't remember rules against that, and it does ignore cover, but I wanted to make sure about that too.

Yes, that is fine. Flamer templates only care about the initial unit you target being in LOS and covered as much as possible.