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If I had a Big Mekk with a KFF in a battle wagon next to an ork trukk (both full of boyz) conferring the trukk a KFF save, and the ork trukk explodes - do the boyz inside the exploding ork trukk get a 5+ save from this if they are within 6 inches. Which they are because the vehicle was.

Thanks. (It means thedifference of 8 orkz lives).

trash wrote:If I had a Big Mekk with a KFF in a battle wagon next to an ork trukk (both full of boyz) conferring the trukk a KFF save, and the ork trukk explodes - do the boyz inside the exploding ork trukk get a 5+ save from this if they are within 6 inches. Which they are because the vehicle was.

Thanks. (It means thedifference of 8 orkz lives).

no you dont get a cover save from exploding vehicles if you are inside. I think those outside get one though.

I think he means that he might get a cover save for the boyz because the KFF now works for them/or not and that´s the question as I understand it.
In other words: You roll for the Trukk, fail, it gets destroyed so the boyz inside are now without trukk and might get a cover save from the KFF for the "vehicle destroyed hits".

Exactly.

Yes you do get a cover save. You were within range of the KFF (measure to the hull) and therefore get a save.

you get cover saves against shooting right?

How exactly is it worded? are they wounded while inside the vehicle? or after being forced to disembark due to it "exploding"?

If they have to take saves before disembarking than they wouldnt get the cover save due to the fact theyre in a vehicle eh?

Well, Trukks are open topped so you can make the argument that the boyz bail out before it goes Kaboom!

jd - you take wounds then are placed where the vehicle was. WHich is entirely irrelevant: you have a 5+ cover save because you are within 6" of the KFF.

Oooo, Ooo!

I have the answer.

P. 67 it says Destroyed hits are "treated just like hits from shooting."
So I do get my cover save, and my opponenet also Doesn't get cover saves from my deff rolla. I thought it was one of the other, but it looks like I get my cake and eat it too

You DO get cover saves from Deff Rollas, as they are not a close combat attack and nothing says that you dont get saves

The argument that cover saves only apply to shooting attacks is not as concrete as it could be, in fact I don't think it even clearly says 'you get a cover save from shooting'
Instead, it says:
P. 21 "Cover is basically anything that is hiding a target or protecting it from incomings SHOTS"
P. 39 " Cover does not provide protection in close combat as it does against SHOOTING"

Vehicles are almost always in cover (w good players) and I always use a deff rolla, so any objections or corrections would be appreciated

Its not at all concrete, as you get cover saves from a Mawloc as a simple example.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You DO get cover saves from Deff Rollas, as they are not a close combat attack and nothing says that you dont get saves

How would someone get a cover save from a deff rolla? if you tank shock, you make contact with the enemy unit. so even if it is a shooting attack you should have los on the whole unit.

I believe you when you say they get a cover save, i just cant grasp the logistics of it.

Unit standing in area terrain, KFF, etc.

rigeld2 wrote:Unit standing in area terrain, KFF, etc.

ok, so why does it count as a shooting attack? I know its not a CC attack either, but where does it default to being a shooting attack?

It doesn't. But it's not a CC attack, so you get a cover save.

You can save against any wound by using cover. Close Combat specifically excludes cover saves. There's no exclusion for defrollas either.

Not everything makes sense. Call it game balance if you will. Since you are only (well mostly) denied cover saves from CC and Flame weapons you get a cover save from a Deffrolla since it isn't classified as either of these attack/weapon types. Not really an issue when I squash SMs or terminators as their normal save is better than what a CS would grant. Agrravating against IG or Nids but I usually don't try to squash the little gribblies. I go after tanks and MCs against them.

rigeld2 wrote:It doesn't. But it's not a CC attack, so you get a cover save.

You can save against any wound by using cover. Close Combat specifically excludes cover saves. There's no exclusion for defrollas either.

oh ok, I think I get it now.

Now back to the topic at hand



Automatically Appended Next Post:

sirlynchmob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:It doesn't. But it's not a CC attack, so you get a cover save.

You can save against any wound by using cover. Close Combat specifically excludes cover saves. There's no exclusion for defrollas either.

oh ok, I think I get it now.

Now back to the topic at hand

ok I'm not getting it. a deffrolla is a tank shock done in the movement phase.

Where does it say you get cover saves against any wound?
Step 5 of the shooting phase says you can take cover saves. its only gives permission for shooting attacks. Now vehicles exploding hits say they count as shooting attacks, it has a range, str and ap value. so you could get a KFF save from your trukk exploding.

Then there is no weapon profile for a deff rolla, nor does it say it counts as hits from shooting, no range or ap value, its just str vs toughness. to me that would make it a CC attack, along with the fact you have to get into b2b to do it. but even if you don't consider it a true CC attack, that doesn't mean its a shooting attack either, nor are you given permission to take a cover save against it.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Step 5 of the shooting phase says you can take cover saves. its only gives permission for shooting attacks. Now vehicles exploding hits say they count as shooting attacks, it has a range, str and ap value. so you could get a KFF save from your trukk exploding.

The shooting rules are the only place where it outlines taking any saves. So, either saves can only be taken against shooting attacks, or those are general rules that apply everywhere and they just happen to appear in the shooting section.

...and, as I poiinted out, GW have CONSISTENTLY ruled that anything that isnt CC or template can take cover saves.

See Mawloc rule, where a creature burrowing up beneath you gives you a cover save

If you have a cover save that doesn't depend on cover being between you and the thing attacking you, which is perfectly possible for several armies, then yes, you can take a cover save against a Deff Rolla.

If, on the other hand, you are behind a piece of cover and the Rolla-Wagon crunches through it to hit you, you don't get a cover save; there's no cover between you and the Deff Rolla, so you can't get the save.