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HQ
Shas'o Battlesuit Commander-128 pts
-Plasma Rifle
--Burst Cannon
---Multi Tracker
----Indium Armour


Troops
11 Fire Warriors
1 Shas'ui
+ Devilfish-50 pts
180 pts

11 Fire Warriors
1 Shas'ui
+ Devilfish-50 pts
180 pts

11 Fire Warriors
1 Shas'uiw ith markerlight
H/W Drone Controller,
2 Gun Drones
160 pts


Elites
(3) Crisis Battlesuit Team-167 pts
Shas'ui with Missile pods, Burst Cannons, Multi Trackers
Leader with Missile pods, Burst Cannons, Target lock and HW Multi Trackers

(3) Crisis Battlesuit Team-179 pts
Shas'ui with Missile pods, Fusion Blasters, Multi Trackers
Leader with Missile pods, Fusion Blasters, Target lock and HW Multi Trackers


Fast Attack
5 Pathfinders, 2 with Rail Rifles-80 pts

5 Pathfinders, 2 with Rail Rifles-80 pts


Heavy Support
Hammerhead with Railgun and Burst Cannons-150 pts

Hammerhead with Ion Cannon and Burst Cannons-115 pts

Hammerhead with Railgun and Burst Cannons-150 pts


1569 points.. need to drop a few, but how should I??

DrownedRat117 wrote:HQ
Shas'o Battlesuit Commander-200 pts

Spoiler:

(All guns are twin-linked)
Burst Cannon-12 pts
Fusion Blaster-18 pts
Plasma Rifle-30 pts
Failsafe Detonator-15 pts
H/W Multi Tracker-5 pts
H/W Drone contoller-0 pts
Shield Drone-15 pts
Gun Drone-10 pts
Indium armour plates-20 pts

Your commander has way way to much on him. Crisis units can only have 3 hard points attached. You said all your weapons are twin-linked the only way to do this is to put 2 of each weapon. so you have a grand total of 8 hard points used. Not to sound mean but you might want to read your codex before you post.

First off, you'll need to remove the individual points costs of wargear; GW can take legal action against Dakka over this; a unit total should suffice.

reds8n wrote:When you post your lists for dissection here the total points value and costs of the individual units are fine to list, but please refrain from listing the cost of each and every upgrade.

So

10 Marines
Heavy bolter
Flamer
Powerfist XXX points is fine.

What we don't want is

10 Marines YY points
Heavy bolter YY points
Flamer YY points
Powerfist YY points.

This applies for vehicles, psychic powers, extra weapons etc etc.

If in doubt, leave it out.

Thank you.

starraptor wrote:You said all your weapons are twin-linked the only way to do this is to put 2 of each weapon.

NUh-uh
It says in the codex if you pay the larger point value then they are twin linked

starraptor wrote: so you have a grand total of 8 hard points used. Not to sound mean but you might want to read your codex before you post.

Where does it explain this in the codex??

If I had mine in front of me I could tell you but it's unfortunately 700km away form me.

It's in the codex you just have to read it.

If you are havign trouble with stuff like this just download a trial aof army builder and it will give you a abeter idea what you can and cannot do.

DrownedRat117 wrote:

starraptor wrote:You said all your weapons are twin-linked the only way to do this is to put 2 of each weapon.

NUh-uh
It says in the codex if you pay the larger point value then they are twin linked

starraptor wrote: so you have a grand total of 8 hard points used. Not to sound mean but you might want to read your codex before you post.

Where does it explain this in the codex??

In the armoury section for crisis suits it clearly says at the top of page before you get to the item part it says to take a weopon twin linked you need to take it twice. Also it says in says either in hq and elite or the armory section again I cant remeber off hand your aloud 3 hard points. To get around that you can have hard wired systems but only if they say they can be.

starraptor wrote:
In the armoury section for crisis suits it clearly says at the top of page before you get to the item part it says to take a weopon twin linked you need to take it twice. Also it says in says either in hq and elite or the armory section again I cant remeber off hand your aloud 3 hard points. To get around that you can have hard wired systems but only if they say they can be.

Ah I see
As for the '3' thing, The commander MUST select three battlesuit weapon systems or support systems. He may select additional items for the battlesuit wargear list. <--Quote

Wargear are hard wired thats why and i already pointed out you can have more than 3 if theyre hard wired i hope this helps. By the way now that you know this you might want to re work your list.

You can have any amount of wargear up to 100 points (Unless its that special stuff)

@DrownedRat117:
You're being a total nOOb. Stop arguing since you're unclear on how things work and take some veteran advice.

DrownedRat117 wrote:You can have any amount of wargear up to 100 points (Unless its that special stuff)

You're looking to having a overloaded commander is a symptom of 40k nOObishness. All that stuff looks cool, but it is called a "points sink" in 40k lingo, and well, your army will suffer for it. He won't be the bad-ass that it looks like on paper. Your opponent will see him as a points sink, aim a few LasCans, GK Psy-Dreadnought autocannon or melta shots and he's dead from Instant Death.

If nothing else, have you looked at the other lists here on dakka? When you do, you won't see any Crisis Suits with a golf bag of weapons (munchkinism).

Common and best HQ Set up:
Shas'El - PlasmaRifle, Missile Pod, Target Array, hard wired MultiTracker, hard wired drone controller, 2 Shield Drones

Elite suits:
Two guns and the MT. Done.

There are 3 columns on page 25. One is Weapons. Column #2 is Support Systems. #3 is Wargear. Yes, the MultiTracker is listed twice, as a Hard Point MultiTracker Support System, and a wargear hard wired MultiTracker.

First paragraph that chart underneath explains things, a bit poorly, bit this is how it is:

You take two guns, and a 3rd "Hard Point," usually, the MultiTracker, so you can shoot both guns. For example:

FireStorm:
1. Burst Cannon
2. Missile Pod
3. MultiTracker

Or

SunForge:
Points 1 & 2 - TwinLinked Fusion Blaster (counts as two guns in the Tau 'dex, fires as one TL wep per Rule Book)
Point #3 - Target Array

You are allowed to make one suit per Elite Unit into a Team Leader, which means he can now access column #3, Wargear. This suit's loadout is often the two guns, the Target Array (for better BS) and then you can access the "hard wired" MultiTracker to shoot both guns.

Team Leader, (who now can access wargear, like the: Bonding Knife
1. Plasma Rifle
2. Burst Cannon
3. Target Array
hwMultiTracker

Give the several other lists on dakka a look. Stop arguing with other posters: The_Bringer, CottonJaw, FlingItNow and Avatar720 (and more I haven't listed) know what we're talking about. You'll also see how to post a list without the cutesy "spoiler" feature.

I'll be honest and say I have even less understanding of the difference between hard wired and hard point.
I'll stop when someone tells me
A) The difference between Wired and Point
(Is Point something that is seen on the suit??)
B) If my commander is legal or not

And Brothererekose thank you, but shut it about 'n00b-ness', not a great way to open up.

DrownedRat117 wrote:I'll be honest and say I have even less understanding of the difference between hard wired and hard point.

That's okay, for years, this has been confusing. I didn't get it right for a long time, until someone pointed it out to me.

DrownedRat117 wrote:I'll stop when someone tells me
A) The difference between Wired and Point

As I said, page 25's explanations aren't too clear. Hard Points are Weapons and Support systems only. You only get 3 of them, combined, not 3 and 3, but a total of 3 between both Weapon and Supports systems.

"Hard Wired" is Wargear only. If you paid for the Team Leader upgrade, or a Bodyguard or the 'Vre upgrade, then you can put Wargear on the suit.

DrownedRat117 wrote:(Is Point something that is seen on the suit??)

Nope. But when you look at the models in the codex pictures, do you see *any* of them with 6 guns? Nope. You'll see two guns and a MultiTracker. Like the trio of Vomit Brown PR/BC/MT suits on the back cover of the book.

DrownedRat117 wrote:B) If my commander is legal or not

*sigh* He's illegal. Refer to the above post to see how you can kit-out your HQ.

DrownedRat117 wrote:And Brothererekose thank you,

Your welcome. I'm being not sarcastic.

DrownedRat117 wrote: but shut it about 'n00b-ness', not a great way to open up.

Since you had not done so well yourself:
1. posting points despite Forum Posting rules (which my opener was to inform you so by copy/pasting reds8n's sitcky)
2. and ... I mean, c'mon, "NUh-uh" ?
But yeah, I'll drop it.

Let's move on. Have you looked at some of the other threads/lists? There's like 4 or 5 on the first two Army List pages.

I think I see now

True, the Tau codex should be updated solely for that..

wow you have too many points on your commander. Maybe take some of it out make him a shas'o and put some body guards as well. Im my opinion stealth teams arent the best to have so id take them out and put in another one crisis battle suit or broadside.

Okay, I usually agree with whatever Brother Erekose says... and everything in his post looks correct. For further reference, check out the link in my sig. It does a mini-breakdown of crisis suit load-outs as well as giving you mathhammer charts. It changed some of my beliefs about crisis suits drastically... so I'd suggest you check it out.

3 devilfish is really a huge points drain. I would suggest getting rid of one, and the unit that lost it could just camp in the back of the board on an objective.

If you have devilfish in your army, you must take pathfinders! They are extremely useful, and getting a devilfish is the hardest part about getting pathfinders.

There are only 2 devilfish

Thanks for the link to the Battlesuit thing, but what are fireknives and deathrains??
I'm guessing they're combinations.. but what??

DrownedRat117 wrote:Thanks for the link to the Battlesuit thing, but what are fireknives and deathrains??
I'm guessing they're combinations.. but what??

This is a good listing of those names and load-outs:
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=939

DrownedRat117 wrote:There are only 2 devilfish

I must be going insane O.o

Anywhoo, to sum up (what I thought was most important of) the report:

Fireknife (MP/PR/MT)
Good all-around choice. Can destroy light vehicles if necessary.

Deathrain (TL MP/TA)
Best at light vehicles. It can kill medium/light infantry if needed.

Firestorm (MP/BC/MT)
The best at light infantry that Crisis Suits can offer (negating flamers...)

Bladestorm (PR/BC/MT)
The absolute best all-around configuration, only outdone by the firestorm at killing light infantry.


And then, with all your crisis teams, its more efficient (points per killy wise) to include a team leader with a targeting array.

DrownedRat117 wrote:HQ Shas'o Battlesuit Commander-

Already addressed a few posts up.

DrownedRat117 wrote:11 Fire Warriors 1 Shas'ui with markerlight + Devilfish-

I'd drop the ML as they can't shoot it from inside the D'fish, nor shoot it as they hop out. And once on the ground for a turn they're likely to either get shot up and then run (still can't use the ML) or they'll move to safer Area Terrain or *back* into the D'fish. AND, (phew!) one ML isn't going to accomplish much.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Crisis Battlesuit Team 2 Shas'ui with Flamer/Missile pod/Shield Generator
+ Shas'vre with Fusion Blaster - Cyclicion Blaster - Shield Generator

1. You should all your suits the same configuration to focus the unit's fire power to one devastating purpose. The philosophy of 'generalizing' suits works against you.
2. Shield Gens are bad because the InvulnSave is likely to be against LasCans, PFists, MLs or other Instant Death wounds. Better to go Team Leader and a hwDrone Controler, then 2 Shield Drones; they're extra wounds and if the Save fails, you lose a Frisbee, not a suit.
3. Notice how I didn't mention 'Vre very much in the other posts? The upgrade is near worthless. The increase in Init and WS has no impact against MarineEquivalent models. 'Vre is only good for accessing Special Issue Wargear, like the CiB. Poster CottonJaw likes the CiB, but I don't care for it.

4. Best to go with FireKnife, FireStorm or Deathrain+ (TL- MP TA), or BladeStorm (BC/PR/MT).

DrownedRat117 wrote:Stealth Team 2 Shas'ui 1 Shas'vre with Markerlight

I would Down grade to Team Leader as again, 'vre accomplishes nothing here, except to spend extra points. But then again, why even have that? I don't think one Stealth is worth the points to Team Lead or Bond. Simply go with the 3 suits. An okay option is to:

x3 Stealths - Drone Controlers for each to gain access to 6 MarkerDrones (you have the spare gun drone models, just call 'em MarkerDs)
upgrade one to Team Leader for the Bonding Knife, as a suit and a few drones are worth Rallying under half unit-STR. Sit back and have the MarkerDrones help the rest of your list's Ballistic Skill.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Hammerhead with Railgun and Burst Cannons-
Hammerhead with Ion Cannon and Burst Cannons-
Hammerhead with Railgun and Burst Cannons-

In 4th edition, the Ion Cannon's use was viable, but no longer in 5th ed. Pretty much every player runs the RG, adds a DisPod (for an inbuilt Cover Save) and the MT (to Move&Shoot like a Fast Vehicle). A few of us add Target Lock so the BCs shoot infantry and the RG hits tanks.

Have you looked at the other lists?

Do you think I should focus my commander on anti vehicle, and have the crisis team focus on infantry, or vice versa??

I'll drop the firewarrior markerlights

As for stealthsuits, I will do just that

DrownedRat117 wrote:Do you think I should focus my commander on anti vehicle, and have the crisis team focus on infantry, or vice versa??

It depends. What's the local meta (that is, what armies do you usually face)?

The FireKnife is the all-around, decent, multipurpose suit. Focusing on heavy infantry or light transports. If you'd rather, a BC/MP/MT FireStorm anti-I suit is good too. A *really* stripped down Deathrain Shas'el with Target Array is good for popping light transports.

I wouldn't run any other. I also avoid Shield Drones for protection, depending on Jump-Shoot-Jump to hide the suit.

Me? I run FireKnives and FireStorms, so as they both have MPs, I shoot the tanks from a distance (with my Railheads and b-sides) and then move up for the BCs' range.

DrownedRat117 wrote:As for stealthsuits, I will do just that

Not the most optimal way to get MarkerLights (pathfinders are cheaper since you already have the two d'fish), but ought to last longer, because of the Stealth Generators.

Play it. And give us a BatRep.

Well I usually face armies which are infantry based, but the vehicels that are there are usually Land Raiders, Battlewagons, so Fusion blasters sound appealing. There are sometimes Transports are utilised.

Considering pathfinders, although they are metal... do you think I could use the stealthsuit model as a pathfinder?!??

DrownedRat117 wrote:Well I usually face armies which are infantry based, but the vehicels that are there are usually Land Raiders, Battlewagons, so Fusion blasters sound appealing. There are sometimes Transports are utilised.

Those are for the railguns on your hammerheads. FBs mean the suit is on a suicide run.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Considering pathfinders, although they are metal... do you think I could use the stealthsuit model as a pathfinder?!??

Oh, no, no. Neither. Instead, buy a box of Fire Warriors. Equip them with the Carbines. Cut rectangular sections from the pulse rifle barrels and glue 'em on top of the carbine. Viola! Pathfinders That's what I did, twice.

Brothererekose wrote:

DrownedRat117 wrote:Considering pathfinders, although they are metal... do you think I could use the stealthsuit model as a pathfinder?!??

Oh, no, no. Neither. Instead, buy a box of Fire Warriors. Equip them with the Carbines. Cut rectangular sections from the pulse rifle barrels and glue 'em on top of the carbine. Viola! Pathfinders That's what I did, twice.

Not a bad idea.

If I were a poor man (and I almost am) I would convert the gun-drones from my crisis suits to be pathfinders... doing what BE said pretty much, or adding some gubbinz that made them look unique.

Sounds like a plan!
As for the Battlesuit Fiasco, my commander will be a 'Bladestorm'

and the team will all have missile pods, fusion blasters, multi trackers
Considering having a second team with them armed with missile pods, burst cannons and multi trackers.

So if team 1 blow up a few Rhinos (For example) team 2 can evaporate the units pouring out. I usually play games where the opponent makes a sort of convoy.

DrownedRat117 wrote:and the team will all have missile pods, fusion blasters, multi trackers
Considering having a second team with them armed with missile pods, burst cannons and multi trackers..

One more bit of advice. Always try to keep your Crisis Suits in as small a sized unit as possible. That is, instead of one unit of 3 suits, have three units of 1 each. Why:
1. They're easier to hide behind terrain with JSJ.
2. Harder to catch in h2h
3. Leave a smaller foot print for enemy templates to exploit
4. It means your enemy has to split his fire more to kill 'em.
5. It also means *you* get to split your fire more efficiently.
6. It allows you to have "Target Arrayed Team Leaders" for more suits (the maximum of 3 anyway)
6. The only negative, is it increases KPs.

You have the FoC slots open, so divvy the suits up into each slot.

Read AdvancedTauTactica.com

Brothererekose wrote:

DrownedRat117 wrote:and the team will all have missile pods, fusion blasters, multi trackers
Considering having a second team with them armed with missile pods, burst cannons and multi trackers..

One more bit of advice. Always try to keep your Crisis Suits in as small a sized unit as possible. That is, instead of one unit of 3 suits, have three units of 1 each. Why:
1. They're easier to hide behind terrain with JSJ.
2. Harder to catch in h2h
3. Leave a smaller foot print for enemy templates to exploit
4. It means your enemy has to split his fire more to kill 'em.
5. It also means *you* get to split your fire more efficiently.
6. It allows you to have "Target Arrayed Team Leaders" for more suits (the maximum of 3 anyway)
6. The only negative, is it increases KPs.

You have the FoC slots open, so divvy the suits up into each slot.

Read AdvancedTauTactica.com

I don't quite agree with this. I actually like 3 squads of 3 crisis suits with the bare minimum i.e. 1 squad of 3 fireknifes and 2 squads of 3 deathrains and no wargear on them so you don't lose to much points if they die which the deathrains shouldent because of there range should keep them out of charge range.

starraptor wrote:I don't quite agree with this. I actually like 3 squads of 3 crisis suits ...

My advice, should he apply it, is instead of two units of 3 suits, he could have 3 pairs, easier to hide, harder to catch in h2h, etc. Not, "run as few suits, only barely filling the 3 FoC Elite slots." Just like a Chaos:SM player, if he only owned 4 Obliterator models, should run them as a pair and two singles, instead of one trio and a single.

Of course, if you have 9 suits then you run 9 suits.

I don't mean to continue this Argument....but there are not hard point restrictions for the XV-8. The restrictions are as follows on PG. 25 of the most recent Tau Codex:.

Quote, "All models with battlesuits must take a number of battlesuit weapons and/or support systems, as detailed in thier army list entry. A model in a battlesuit that has access to the Armory may also choose up to 100 points from the Battlesuit Wargear list. No model can pick the same item twice, and all equipment, other than wargear (which is assumed to be integrated), must be represented on the model."

All it says is that you cant take more than a 100 points in hard points and furthermore; The codex states that you must take three hard points per team member and can even take more systems from the armory.