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Here is some basic idea how the army will look like:


Lords

Tomb King - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Khemrian Warsphinx.

High Liche Priest - Level 3 Wizard, can upgrade to level 4. Can choose the Lore of Nehekhara, Light, or Death. Mounts: Skeletal Steed.

Heroes

Tomb Prince - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Khemrian Warsphinx.

Tomb Herald - Flammable, Killing Blow, Sworn Bodyguard. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, Halberd, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Skeletal Steed. May upgrade to a BSB.

Liche Priest - Level 1 Wizard, can upgrade to level 2. Can choose the Lore of Nehekhara, Light, or Death. Mounts: Skeletal Steed.

Necrotect - Flammable, Stone Shaper, Wrath of the Creator, Hatred. Has LA, HW, and Whip.

Core
Skeleton Warriors - Unit size 10+ Has HW and S, can also take LA and/or Spears.

Skeleton Archers - Unit size 10+ Arrows of Asaph. Has HW and Bow, can also take LA.

Skeleton Horsemen - Unit size 5+ Vanguard. Has Spear and S, can also take LA.

Skeleton Horse Archers - Unit size 5+ Arrows of Asaph, Fast Cavalry, and Scouts.

Skeleton Chariots - Unit size 3+ And the Tomb Kings Rode to War, Arrows of Asaph, Chariot Legions. Has Spears and Bows. One unit may take a magic standard up to 25 points.

Special
Tomb Guard - Unit size 10+ Killing Blow. Has LA and S, may take Halberds, and may take a magic standard up to 50 points.

Necropolis Knights - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Killing Blow(Riders only), Poisoned Attacks(Necroserpent only), Stone Hide. Has Spear, may be upgraded to have the Entombed Beneath the Sands special rule.

Tomb Scorpion - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Killing Blow, Magic Resistance(1), Poisoned Attacks.

Ushabti - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Arrows of Asaph. Has GW and HW, may swap GW for either Great Bows or Additional HWs.

Tomb Swarm - Unit size 2-10 Entombed Beneath the Sands, Poisoned Attacks.

Carrion - Unit size 3+ Fly.

Khemrian Warsphinx - Unit size 1 and 4 crew Animated Construct, Howdah Crew, Killing Blow(Crew only), Large Target, Terror, Thundercrush Attack. Crew come with Spears, Warsphinx may take Envenomed Sting and/or Fiery Roar upgrades.

Sepulchral Stalkers - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Transmogrifying Gaze. Has Halberds.

Rare
Necrolith Colossus - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Arrows of Asaph, Large Target, Terror, and Unstoppable Assault. Has HW, may take Additional HW, GW, or Bow of the Desert

Hierotitan - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Large Target, Spirit Conduit, and Terror. Has Icon of Ptra and Scales of Usirian.

Necrosphinx - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Decapitating Strike, Fly, Killing Blow, Large Target, and Terror. May be upgraded to take Envenomed Sting.

Screaming Skull Catapult - Unit size 1 Screaming Skull Catapult and 3 Skeleton Crew Screaming Skulls. Crew come with HW and LA, Screaming Skull Catapult may be upgraded to take Skulls of the Foe.

Casket of Souls - Unit Size 1 Casket of Souls, 1 Keeper of the Casket, and 2 Casket Guards. Covenant of Power, Killing Blow(Casket Guard only), Light of Death, and Unleashed Souls. Keeper of the Casket Has LA and HW, Casket Guard come with LA and GWs.

Magic Items
Destroyer of Eternities(Tomb King on Foot Only) - Magic Weapon that grants +2 Strength and the Heroic Killing Blow ability. Can exchange all of the wielder's attacks to inflict one automatic hit on all enemy models in base contact. Will hit both rider and mount, and will only hit the model involved in a challenge where applicable, these hits also benefit from +2 Strength and HKB.

Blade of Antarhak - Magic Weapon that for every unsaved wound inflicted by the blade, the wielder regains one wound, if the wielder is already at their starting wounds, they gain Regeneration until the end of the next player turn.

Golden Death Mask of Kharnut - Enchanted Item that grants the bearer Terror, in addition all enemy units within 6" cannot make use of their General's Inspiring Presence rule or their BSB's Hold Your Ground rule.

Cloak of the Dunes(Infantry Character on Foot Only) - Enchanted Item that allows bearer to fly, in addition if the bearer moves over any unengaged enemy units in the remaining moves phase, that unit suffers 2d6 Strength 2 hits distributed as shooting. The bearer may move over several units hitting them all, but will only cause one set of hits per unit per movement phase.

Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations - Arcane Item, one use only. Declare use prior to casting a spell, the Wizard adds a number of bonus dice equal to his caster level to the Power Dice that they were going to use(you must use at least one PD from the pool). These bonus dice do not count as PD, however any double rolled while casting this spell will result in Irresistible Force and a Miscast.

Enkhil's Kanopi - Arcane Item, Bound Spell Power Level 3, if successfully cast roll a 1d6 for each Remains In Play Spell on the table. On a 2+ that spell is immediately dispelled. Adds 1d3 PD to your pool for each spell dispelled this way.

Standard of the Undying Legion - Magic Standard, Bound Spell Level 5, Augment Spell if successfully cast the bearer's unit immediately regains 1d6+2 wounds worth of models.

Banner of the Hidden Dead - Magic Standard, Nominate one of your units of Infantry, Cavalry, or Chariots with the Nehekharan Undead rule that has yet to deploy, and is no greater than 150 points. That unit gains the Entombed Beneath the Sands rule, and when that unit emerges, you must place the marker within 12" of the banner's bearer. Additionally any units emerging from EBtS with a marker within 12" of the banner's bearer may re roll the artillery and scatter dice when emerging.

Lore of Nehekhara
Lore Attribute - The Restless Dead: Each time a wizard successfully casts an augment spell from the Lore of Nehekhara on a friendly Nehekharan Undead unit, that unit regains 1d3 + 1 wounds worth of models. Units with the Animated Constructs Rule can only ever regain a single lost wound this way, per magic phase.

Signature Spell - Khsar's Incantation of the Desert Wind
Casting: 8+ [Boost 16+]
Range: 12" Radius [Boost 24" Radius]
Augment Spell If successful targets all friendly unengaged Nehekharan Undead units within 12"/24", those units can immediately make a normal move as it were the Remaining Moves phase. No unit may move more than once per magic phase per this spell, but may still be targeted in order to use the Lore Attribute.

1 - Djaf's Incantation of Cursed Blades
Casting: 7+ [Boost 10+]
Range: 12" [Boost 24"]
Augment Spell Target unit within 12"/24" gains the Killing Blow ability for close combat attacks until the start of the caster's next magic phase. If the target already has the Heroic Killing Blow/Killing Blow ability, the ability will trigger on a 5+ instead of a 6+.

2 - Neru's Incantation of Protection
Casting: 9+ [Boost 18+]
Range: 12" [Boost 12" Radius]
Augment Spell Target unit/all friendly Nehekharan Undead units gain a 5+ ward save until the start of the caster's next magic phase.

3 - Ptra's Incantation of Righteous Smiting
Casting: 9+ [Boost 18+]
Range: 12" [Boost 24" Radius]
Augment Spell Target unit/all friendly Nehekharan Undead units has their attacks characteristic increased by one until the start of the caster's next magic phase. Additionally if the target(s) are armed with a bow or great bow, they gain the Multiple Shots (2) rule.

4 - Usirian's Incantation of Vengeance
Casting: 10+ [Boost 13+]
Range: 18" [Boost 36"]
Hex Spell The target unit suffers - 1d3 to its movement (to a minimum of one) and treats all terrain (including open ground) as Dangerous Terrain until the start of the caster's next magic phase.

5 - Usekhp's Incantation of Desiccation
Casting: 11+ [Boost 22+]
Range: 24" [Boost 24"]
Hex Spell The target has -1 Strength and -1 Toughness (both to a minimum of one) / -1d3 Strength and Toughness (both to a minimum of one) until the start of the Caster's Next Magic Phase.

6 - Sakhmet's Incantation of the Skullstorm
Casting: 15+ [Boost 25+]
Range: Artillery Die x Wizard Level [Boosted Artillery Die x Wizard Level]
Remains in Play Magical Vortex Place the small/large template and nominate direction. Misfire centers template on caster and moves in a random direction. Models touched by template suffer a Strength 4 hit.

Special Characters
Settra the Imperishable - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done, and Settra the Great. Has The Blessed Blade of Ptra, LA, Chariot of the Gods, The Crown of Nehekhara, The Scarab Brooch of Usirian. Settra is also a Level 1 Wizard who must use the Lore of Nehekhara and may be your army's Hierophant.

High Queen Khalida - Always Strikes First, Blessing of Asaph, The Curse, Flammable, Hatred(Vampire Counts, Incarnation of the Asp Goddess, and Poisoned Attacks. Has The Venom Staff and LA.

Arkhan the Black - The Curse and Flammable. Has The Tomb Blade of Arkhan, LA, The Liber Mortis, and the Staff of Nagash. May be mounted on a Skeleton Chariot, and the Chariot may be upgraded with 2 additional Skeleton Steeds, and/or to gain the Fly special rule. Arkhan is a Level 4 wizard who must use the Lore of Death and may be your army's Hierophant.

Grand Hierophant Khatep - Grand Hierophant of Khemri and Loremaster(Lore of Nehekhara). Has HW, The Liche Staff, and Scroll of the Cursing Word. Khatep is a level 4 wizard who must use the Lore of Nehekhara, and must be your army's Hierophant.

The Herald Nekaph - Flammable, Herald of Despair, Killing Blow, Sworn Bodyguard, and Settra's Champion. Has Flail of Skulls and LA. May be mounted on a Skeleton Chariot or Skeleton Steed.

Prince Apophas - Desert Revenant, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Fly, Regeneration, Scarab Prince, Soul Reaper, Strider, and Terror. Has HW and LA.

Ramhotep the Visionary - Flammable, Frantic Fervour, Master Artisan, Frenzy, Stone Shaper, Wrath of the Creator, and Hatred. Has HW, Whip, and LA.



But becouse this is tactics thread I need some tactics:
Unforgiven TK host (by ME):

My main battleline will be 30+ spear skellies with prince and necrotect + 25+ TG with TK(with death mask) and necrotect
Some priests for support (and maybe even expensive khatep so I have 100% chanse to have all Nehekharan spells I want)
some sphinxes and chariots for flankers
Some EBTS units like Snake surfers and scorpions
and the some catapults (good combo with deathmask) maybe heirotitan or casket

-unforgiven-

The main battle line, for me will be 40-60 skellies. Couple of 20 man blocks of archers for support, HLP and LP for spells and a TK with mask in TG unit supported by colossus and ushabti. I will have to switch it up once I get some of the new models, but for now

The golden deathmask should be used in every game vs non immune to psyche armies.

Im going for chariots for maximum carnage

well...not sure should you use ushabti, yeas they are 15p cheaper than before, but they are only S4 now so S4stomp and neec GW for S6
And yes golden deathmask is must have....SSC combo anyone?
And yes IMO chariots are good, 15p more expensive, but D6 impact hits and tougher crew + cheaper comman....Yes please.
I can already settra leading my chariot army...

-unforgiven-

My new tactics for the new TK book is to sell my models on Ebay. Works flawlessly.

D6 impact, and crew and horse attacks; and a spell that gives killing blow?
That scares a lot of infantry.

-Matt

Not to include with ranks those impact hits +1 to their str, even better. Im thinking of running a hoard of skely warriors on foot, with HW, shield, lite armor, to support the chariot charge.

Both chariot crew have and spears and bows, now (and A2 I think). Unlike before where it was one with bow and one with spear.

Finally, skeletons cost what they are worth (maybe). 30 bow skeletons in a block isn't bad for 180, and giving a Guard block hatred and WS 6 looks pretty good. 25 shots, only 8 hit but that's 8 hits on anything and they are still capable of holding stuff up.

Anybody have comments on their magic? The complete lack of marches could be a problem. You HAVE to get that movement spell off now, but it also heals you on top.

Make sure you take some death magic... especially if you are going for magic heavy, you really need to replentish the depleeted power pool.


Prince with skelly horde in tarpit formation should be given gear to survive for as long as possible. King with DoE to tomb guard, to kill things.

extra PD would be nice BUT spells like speed of light and timewarp...I WANT THEM BOTH....let me think...khatep to max lore of nehekhara and 2 light or death priest...

I always feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but no tactics actually exist in this thread yet.

Strategy: What you want to bring to the table, and how you want to beat your opponent. Strategies are often army build centric. "Do I want any shooting? What kind of magic should I take? Lots of foot troops? Lots of monsters?" Everything up to this point is strategy centric

Tactics: How you go about implementing your strategy, tactics usually involve movement: sacrifices, flees, double charges, counter-charge blocking.

Example:

Strategy: I want to shoot at my oppoenent, a lot. My army list will consist of Khalida, a 100 block unit of skeleton archers (33 wide by 3 deep) (Khalida goes here) 2 or 3 more units of 30 skeleton archers 2 screaming skull catapults, a couple of liche priests 2 units of 6 ushabti with bows, and 2 giants with bows, and a Casket of souls. I also want a couple of units of Light cav. Some Sepulchre guard would be nice too.

Tactics: I'm going to march block with my light cav. I'm going move forward to get to my 24 inch shooty range, and then slowly move backwards to maximize my time out of combat. Since I never suffer shooting penalties, I'm going to deploy behind terrain. When it comes time for my opponent to charge, I'm going to use my Light cav to charge-block in order to "hopefully" buy me one more shooting phase. Finally, once I am in combat, I'm going to use my ushabti, and giants to counter-charge those units in the flanks. The Sepulchre guard will come up behind the most dangerous unit, using the "It Came From Below" special rule, and follow that unit shooting it to hell and back.

As you can see, typically your tactical tool-bag is predicated upon the strategy you intend to use. very few, if any of the tactics I use for my shooty army will be present in an all cavalry/necro knight/war-sphynx list.

Ragnar4 wrote:I always feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but no tactics actually exist in this thread yet.

List writing is a very important part of 8th ed., hence the talk about strategy. Once the strategy gets nailed down, then there will be talk of tactics. This being said, GW games don't involve too much tactically.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is a small bit of tactics to get thing started. Use skellies to tar pit, while Sphynxs and units of 3 chariots hit the flanks of the enemy.

I don't disagree that strategy is more important this edition than last.

I whole-heartedly disagree that GW gamed don't involve much tactically.

7th was absolutely full of tactical nuance.

8th is appearing to also have a lot more tactical nuance than originally thought, but you HAVE to be able to compete in the combat phase... which 7th didn't require.

Im making batrep this or next week using new TK, but I have so many new things and I cant include all.... So I made some thinking and my army will look something like this on 2000 - 2500p:


Tomb king with deathmask and defensive wargear and maybe chariot
Or lvl4 high priest with flying cloak and earthing rod
And in large games both

And pick about 3(more for larger games)
Prince with killy wargear
Lvl2 priest(s)
1 or 2 necrotect

Big unit of spear skellies about 50+
3-5 chariots (5 if chariot king)
30ish TG with halberds and FC +BOUL (characters go here and skellies)
Warsphinx if I have points
Maybe few snake surfers
And must if I have king with deathmask....2 SSC with SOTF

Strategy:
TG and skellies for solid battleline, TG take any enemy deathstars
And king uses his mask with catapults to make -1ld panic tests whitout IP or HYG
(sphinx) and chariots guard flanks and charge to flanks
And snake dudes either: hunt wsr machines or try to rear charge

Ragnar: your super expensive khalida unit who would suck in CC would hit avarage 33 which 5 or 6 poisons then you wound T3 16 or 17 times and then time for saves... So 4+ save and... You kill about 16 or so + khalidas MM... Nice but get to shoot about 2 times and you would probably lose
I dont say this strategy is 'bad' but there is soo... Many other good ways play new TK so for friendly games okay list and tactic

-unforgiven-

Edit: WOW 2 more posts while I was writing this.... Lets anserw them tomorrow... Must sleep...

Ragnar4 wrote:
I whole-heartedly disagree that GW gamed don't involve much tactically.

7th was absolutely full of tactical nuance.

8th is appearing to also have a lot more tactical nuance than originally thought, but you HAVE to be able to compete in the combat phase... which 7th didn't require.

7th was indeed full of tactics in comparison to 8th. The latter may indeed have more tactics than initially thought, but it pales in comparison to Privateer Press' stuff.

There are tactically interesting GW games, such as BFG, but they are not really supported (see the doom and gloom about moving to resin.)

Khalida imparts a BS of 3 on the unit she's with.

50 hits, 16.5 of which are poison. (horde formation shoots all 3 ranks)

the last 33 wound based on str. T3 which is the majority of the warhammer world = 16 wounds

32 wounds... That wipes out your average unit of elves.

God help you if you get the 2x shots spell off on that unit.

The army wasn't designed to be a good one, honestly, but rather an example of how to get the most out of the army you design.

Here's what it is: Blah Blah Blah.

Here's how I intend to use it: Blah, Blah, blah.

It's pretty exciting stuff, but I want to wait until I see the real book. Not only that, any updated models (up close). Because you want to like your army. Besides, there is no Strategy subforum.

The magic is very Beastmen/Ogre-like. I think giving that many dirt cheap units, that many upgrades is nearly impossible to resist. The casting values are relatively high considering you'll likely want multiple spells going off.

Having a horde-based Killing Blow army is a pretty insane concept and would definately scare the crap out of people (besides Ogres).

Definately a lot of different ways to take the army. I'm still wary of gun/bowlines with everyone able to fast charge.

ok... Here is a pair tactic.


One
Deploy a unit of fast cav scouts in or behind terrain on one of the flanks. Use them to draw the enemy's troops away from the DZ. Once the enemy is out of the way, dump a pair of scorpions and a unit of three stalkers behind them. Use the constructs to sweep behind enemy lines and take out lone wizards and war machines, or else just to march block.

On the main battle line, have at least one unit of four chariots ready to charge the rear of any unit that turns around to go after the constructs. Even if the chariots are destroyed, the constructs will have time to move out of the way. The tactical advantage of having these constructs behind the enemy lines is worth much more than the points lost from the sacrificial chariots.


Two
Put a herald with a chariot in a unit of three chariots. Give him the banner of hidden sands (or whatever it is called). That allows 150 points of anything to get the entombed in the sands rule. I put a necrotect (sp?) on a chariot and stick him in there too.

Grab a unit of 35 sword and board skellies with the banner. Also grab two units of four Snake surfers and one of three stalkers. Get the chariots into position on one of the flanks. Bring up the hidden units around him as they come into play. Attempt to carve out a position on one of the flanks and sweep along the length of the table with your force.

Maybe put the special character with entombed in the sands with the skellies. The herald enables the skellies. The necrotect allows the constructs and skellies to come in with less scatter.




What are your thoughts?

-Jim

First thing that grabbed me is Enkhil's Kanopi; that is going to be brutal against Ogres with multiple buffs all coming off and feeding dice at once, and probably a few other RiP spell armies.

It also looks like if you are taking the TK lore getting another character that does as well is a good plan. Together with 3-4 large blocks of any skellies you should be able to toss out lots of augments everyone abilities that keep your blocks well healed. If you opponent doesn't focus fire down one block at a time you might well be able to keep your blocks around nearly the entire game, as the lore attribute might well counteract all crumbling losses forcing your opponent to literally kill every bloody skellie to get points. During that time hitting on the flanks with giants or whatever shouldn't be too hard.

Also killing blow on a unit of skellies with spears is scary. A horde of 40-50 getting 40 killing blow attacks is going to ruin a lot of days. Trouble is that you will be throwing fistfulls of power dice to make certain it gets off, but it might well be worth it.

Ragnar4 wrote:

50 hits, 16.5 of which are poison. (horde formation shoots all 3 ranks)

Are you sure of that? I don't have my BRB close by, but I'd swear that the extra rank for hordes is only CC.

If they don't move, they have the hail of arrows sp rule, but no full 3rd rank.

jouso wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:

50 hits, 16.5 of which are poison. (horde formation shoots all 3 ranks)

Are you sure of that? I don't have my BRB close by, but I'd swear that the extra rank for hordes is only CC.

If they don't move, they have the hail of arrows sp rule, but no full 3rd rank.

That's what Iwas thinking...
And Jimlofa:
Im pretty sure that you cant take chariot for necrotect
Like the idea of EBTS spam (if thats what you were going for)
But I find it personally hard to do army like that, coz there is so many new charcter boost AND new magic is awesome IMO ..... Just my opinion

-unforgiven-

disappointing that the necro cant take a chariot. Kind of throws a wrench into that whole plan.

I want to try the entombed in the sands thing, but I'm not sure if it will work. One of the best parts about the tomb kings is that we can almost always be sure exactly how they will perform. They will never run, they are ITP, no shooting modifiers, etc. They only random aspect of the army is the dice. Entombed in the sands throws that off, because who the heck knows when they will come into play.

Still, the fact that it is random means that the enemy doesn't know what will happen either.


-Jim

Am I the only one who thinks leave the expensive stalker units and such at home - go 2 tomb kings (survivability kitted out), give each a horde 50-60 spear skeletons, couple of archer bunks behind them to shelter spell casters, maybe a couple scorpions for warmachine hunter. WS6 skellies, casters throwing around buff and killing blow spells - ouch! Keep a big nasty like the war-sphinx running around threatening flanks - heck even just a chariot unit of 6 paired up with each skeleton block. Hordes that big will take a couple turns at least to whittle down, so you'd have more than enough time to magic your chariots into the rear or flank of the unit your tied up with.

I think they'll fit right in with 8th edition nicely though - the magic spells are a little underwhelming, but then again the lore attribute is very nice. Have to see though.

Mattbranb wrote:
I think they'll fit right in with 8th edition nicely though - the magic spells are a little underwhelming, but then again the lore attribute is very nice. Have to see though.

Yes, I agree they fit 8th edition but you think that new spells are 'underwhelming' I think they are awesome... Really killing blow skellies? Yes please. Oh and dont forget extra attack. Or TG with 5+ KB... Super killy.
That healing is good bonus, but not the best part of new magic system IMO

the unforgiven wrote:

Mattbranb wrote:
I think they'll fit right in with 8th edition nicely though - the magic spells are a little underwhelming, but then again the lore attribute is very nice. Have to see though.

Yes, I agree they fit 8th edition but you think that new spells are 'underwhelming' I think they are awesome... Really killing blow skellies? Yes please. Oh and dont forget extra attack. Or TG with 5+ KB... Super killy.
That healing is good bonus, but not the best part of new magic system IMO

I don't see how the new spells are underwhelming at all.

Extra movement and I get d3+1 wounds back? Cool.
Klling Blow or my HKB/KB goes to a 5+? Heya Tomb Guard!
+1 Attack/Multiple Shots? Good.
-1s -1t, huge! Using this with a Chariot charge is epic win.
Skullstorm is only going to be good with a level 4 caster and it worked nicely for me.

Aren't three chariots 165 points minimum?

I thought it (the banner) allowed chariots, but the cost itself seems to prevent them.

kirsanth wrote:Aren't three chariots 165 points minimum?

I thought it (the banner) allowed chariots, but the cost itself seems to prevent them.

Yes, 3 Chariots are 165 minimum. That Banner is unimpressive.

JimLofa wrote:

I want to try the entombed in the sands thing, but I'm not sure if it will work. One of the best parts about the tomb kings is that we can almost always be sure exactly how they will perform. They will never run, they are ITP, no shooting modifiers, etc. They only random aspect of the army is the dice. Entombed in the sands throws that off, because who the heck knows when they will come into play.



-Jim

From playing daemons for a while, ITP whole nice, can also get you in trouble...

You cant flee charges, you cant bait and redirect. Definately adds a level of finesse to the army.

Anyone know if the Heirophant dying causes everyone to crumble again? Big lvl 6 puddle spells could be annoying.